128: When Provocation Meets the Professionalism - Interview w/Capt. Tevin Dixon

We talk with Captain Tevin Dixon about the road from Oklahoma DOC Correctional Officer to shift supervisor and the mentors who shaped his calm, respectful leadership style. We also break down the gate incident with a derogatory provocateur and why professionalism, transparency, and peer support matter when corrections gets tested in public. 

We also dig into what shaped Tevin’s leadership long before he wore a uniform: growing up in Oklahoma with a true village, being held accountable by family, and learning discipline through work and expectations. He shares what it felt like to step into prison work at 24 with no prior exposure, how mentors guided him, and why respect, nonverbal communication, and policy knowledge are survival skills for any corrections officer. His time in both security and case management adds another layer, showing how understanding process, paperwork, and programming can make you more effective and more approachable.

The conversation goes deeper into mentorship and resilience, including what Tevin tells younger officers, how he supports staff under stress, and why corrections trauma is often invisible to the public. If you care about prison safety, correctional staff wellness, leadership under pressure, and what professionalism looks like when someone is trying to bait you on camera, this one is for you. Subscribe, share this with a coworker, and leave a review so more people hear what the job really takes.

CorrectionsOne Article - https://www.corrections1.com/corrections-training/when-provocation-meets-professionalism-lessons-from-an-okla-corrections-incident

Tevin Dixon on LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/tevin-dixon-4b92b6265

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Transcript

Welcome, Sponsor, And Guest Bio

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Well, hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Prison Officer Podcast. Uh, it's going to be a great show today. I'm really interested in my guest, and it's something relevant, and it's something that's been in the news lately, so hang around for that. Uh, if you haven't done so, go check out Behind the Wall. That's the newest thing with the Prison Officer Podcast. If you want to go deeper into these conversations, if you want to read more and see more about what goes on with the podcast, that's a great place to start. Uh, you can check it out in the notes. Uh while we're here, I'd also like to thank Pepper Ball. They've been my sponsor for four and a half years now. And I appreciate them. Without them, this podcast would not be possible. And while you're thinking of it, while you're right there, go ahead and hit subscribe and give us a like. And I really appreciate that. That's how we drive views to this podcast, and that's how we get to stay on the air. So let me introduce Captain Tevin Dixon. He is a dedicated correctional professional with over a decade of service in the Oklahoma Department of Corrections. He has built a reputation for strong leadership, integrity, and a commitment to public safety. Raised in Oklahoma City by a single mother, Captain Dixon credits much of his foundation to the strength of his family and the support of his extended village, which played a vital role in his upbringing and development. These early influences helped shape the values of discipline, accountability, and perseverance. He is a proud graduate of Midwest City High School. Began his career with ODOC as a frontline in frontline capacity correctional officer. Captain Dixon quickly demonstrated a natural ability to lead and manage complex situations within the correctional environment. During his tenure, he also served as a case manager for three years, where he played a critical role in offender management. He's currently serving as a captain at Allen Gamble Correctional Center. Captain Dixon oversees daily operations, supervises staff, and ensures adherence to the departmental policies and procedures. As an African American leader in corrections, Captain Dixon brings perspective, resilience, and a strong sense of purpose to this role. He's committed to mentoring others, promoting fairness, and upholding the highest standards of service within the department. And I am very happy to have him on here. Welcome, Tevin. Hello, thank you, sir. Thanks for having me, Mike. Absolutely. I am excited to uh have you on here. I want to learn more about you. I want to uh know how you got started. I say that you grew up in Oklahoma City. We're not too far away from each other. I grew up in Springfield, Missouri, so we're just a few hours apart. But tell me growing up and what was growing up like in Oklahoma City.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

I started out my mother and my mother grew up in basically like uh she's the 13th out of I mean, sorry, she's the 12th out of 13 children. And so they all actually moved to the city. And basically we we went from the eastern side of schools, and then we went to uh I ended up graduating from from Midwest City High School in. And uh shortly after I went to end up going to to basically uh basically end up going to Miami, Miami, Oklahoma, to northern northeastern Oklahoma for about uh semester and a half and ended up uh moving back home and started back working and stuff. And basically throughout all my years, I always always wanted to be something in law enforcement, but uh and it basically while I was there at NEO, my first thing I wanted to be was basically a crime scene investigator.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

And the professor showed some some pictures where where it wouldn't I couldn't go to sleep at night after looking at some of those pictures and stuff like that. And so that's why I ended up going down like the correctional field after I came back from college. I worked, I worked at I ended up working a little, you know, a couple eyes and end jobs and uh shortly, you know, you know, shortly after I ended up moving back down, back down to Boley, Oklahoma. My grandfather, my grandfather was was in, you know, in transition of passing away and um all my family's from the country, you know, started from, so that's how I ended up from the city back back to the country. And I've been down down in Boley. I started out at John Lilly Correctional Facility in 2015.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

I ended up working Did you know somebody that had worked in corrections? How'd you get into the job? Where'd you find the job?

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Um my grand my actually actually my grandmother, when it was the when Boley uh at Boley at John Lilly, it actually started as the basically uh home for Negro boys. And uh I knew it was down here, but I didn't ever didn't ever think about being a correction officer. Yeah. And I when I moved down here, my uncle had I was helping my uncle, you know, remodeling paint houses. Uh one of the correction officers, she saw me and she said, You need to be come out to the prison. And surely I tried it up, you know. Oh, I put in my application and came out there and and didn't ever look back, ended up while I was working corrections and got back in school. So got got my degree in criminal justice, uh, just an associate. And so that's why I was going back and forth in case management as well. And and I got that taken care of. Basically I I I TDY'd at several different other facilities while while like while working at John Lilly.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Yes, sir. So I didn't I have different like different different levels of uh security levels. I ended up working at North Fork in Sarah, Oklahoma. Uh Dick Connors, Abel Bassett for a little bit, and even and now actually uh back now actually I switched over to Alan Gamble probably about uh a year and a half.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Okay. What level of security is that joint?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

It was medium max, but they just recently switched over the maxes all all over the OSP.

First Day Nerves And Mentors

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Okay. Excellent. So first time you walked in, you'd never been, had you ever been in jail before? Had you ever been in prison before?

SPEAKER_02 6:26

No, no, no. That was my first time. I was I was 24 years old and I didn't know nothing. Well nothing. Right. Basically, I felt like a uh I basically felt like a kid because I never been around, like, you know, I have a I have a few, like, like maybe like older cousins that's that's in law enforcement, but I never like been around law enforcement. Uh I was nervous. I had like I was uh several different you know incidences that I went through and stuff like that. When I first started, I always laughed and I and basically uh miss, I always think about one of my one of my coworkers, she still worked at John Lilly, Becky Smith. She basically took me under a wing and we all call her like, you know, fo mother, mother hen. And so that she she mentored, you know, somebody I just always take somebody to mentor, and like her and you know, several other, you know, officers help help mentor us along the way. So uh while I'm laughing because you know it always comes with stories working in in correction. So that's why I got like a little smirk on there. So start starting out, like, you know, that, and then my training officer basically he he done it for 20 years, and he told me told me the ropes and basically just said that basically go, you know, this is what you do, treat them with respect, and you know, they'll give you respect back, and you know, you shouldn't have any issues from there. And that John Lilly, that's the minimum. So the inmates are everywhere, so it's not like behind the door. So you actually learn how to deal with, you actually deal with people more at like a community corrections and uh and a minimum, and and then helping us, you know, going to different facilities. That's what that's what gained my my experiences and and my um, you know what I mean, and basically gaining all my correctional experiences, going going to different levels of security and being on like cert. Basically that's like a correctional uh correctional emergency response team. And and that's just that's just helped me out throughout my years, just dealing with dealing with the different levels of, you know, from security starting out and been around the years and you know Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah, I I tell when uh young officers ask me, you know, hey, what should I be doing? I always tell them to get on a team. Because being on a team does a couple of things. One, you get a you get that mentorship from the other people, plus you've got people who are holding you to a standard and they're keeping you in line. So yeah, I think being on a cert team is uh is a wonderful part of anybody's career. Yes, that's yeah. That that's uh So you how long have you been captain?

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Just about a year and a half now. May I do believe that's what he does. That's the half mark here in May. So just about a year and a half, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

So in Oklahoma is captain a shift supervisor, or it is is it the chief of custody? Where where does the uh shift supervisor? Okay, okay. Yes, sir. So you're running uh day watch, evening watch?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Uh day watch, uh uh 0600 to 1800.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Oh, you guys are on twelve.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Yes, yes, sir. We're on we're on five twelve, yes there.

Raised By A Village

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of places are having to adjust schedules because of uh staffing. Yeah, and that that's probably why they did that there. Yes, sir. So uh tell me a little bit about uh I know that you said you you grew up and your mom was a single mom and that you were raised by you said a village, you know, that's kind of the term that we use. Tell me about that. How how did those people around you build up some of those uh characteristics that you use today?

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Uh basically my grandfather, my grandfather, when he passed in 2015, he was he was 93 years old. So basically, like I I'm I'm only 35 years old, but I grew up with the the older generation. Um I grew up around his aunts and uncles. Like history, I know history first firsthand. So uh um I I basically we had to work, you know. Even though I'm I was young, everything wasn't just given to me, you know. Even though when I'm when we come down, come down to Bowley or come down uh you know what I mean to grant to grandpa's house, we always would have to work. So we always had chores. If it was in the winter time, we had to go get firewood. Grandpa always had some type of job, and he always said, just keep working and everything will pay off. You know, uh that's what I that's basically what I live by. And uh basically my mom, she's the 12th out of 13. She has six other, she has six other sisters and basically six sisters and seven boys. And so basically, like all the all the the sisters are very close. Like even though when we stayed in the city, it was three sisters stayed on one street. And so basically, like, like if you got in trouble, somebody gotta get out of the street. You know, you can't get away with nothing. That's when I say a village family, you know, somebody gonna somebody gonna dump you, you know what I mean? Not not say, you know, whoop your tail all the time like that, but somebody's gonna give you some discipline, you know, and then they're gonna go tell your mom and dad and uh and go from there. And so uh so basically basically that that's where it comes from when like I say a village family, my family. Even when I grew up in Midwest City, when we moved to Millwood City, it was everybody, like, you know, everybody kind of still looked out for each other. My my aunt, my my older aunt, she still stayed like a couple blocks down from the way. And then one one of my one of my other uncles ended up staying in Midwest City too. So even though we stayed in Millwood City, we were still coordinated with family around. We was all still like, you know, family oriented, and we'll end up coming down to Bowley and, you know, go fishing as a grand as the family, have big family reunions, you know. And uh basically that that's how uh if you got in trouble, and I always remember this with with my Lulu. If you got in trouble, if you got suspended from your school, you was going to school with Ain't Lulu. And going to school with Ain't Lulu was way worse than your regular school. So you might as well just just stay, be good, say it, stay out of trouble, and just don't just just fly straight, you know, pretty much. And so that's why I say, like, you know, a village family with my family, and like like basically, and all my uncles, you know, when we come down here, they always say, you know, uh, you get in the front, you know, you get in the front of this truck because I'm not gonna listen to Kat. You know, that's my mom. Uh, you know, and they say, you know, uh, watch out for Kevin, because we don't have time listening to Kat's mouth or something like that. So it was like pretty much, they'll get on to me, but it was in a different way. So they know they they'll get in, they'll you know how brothers and sisters are. So they all kept they always cut me out in line, they always cut me out of trouble. So everybody always, you know, is just like a basically big disciplinary family oriented.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, yeah. I grew I grew up the same way. Uh I mean neighbors, neighbors could give you a spanking when I was little, and then they'd drag your ass home.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

You were gonna get a second one. But yeah, I think we need some more of that. That's uh there's nothing wrong with that, that everybody's watching.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Right, everybody watching, right? I I remember I remember that in church. I got popped like that in church one time. So yeah, church was the worst. You better you better not show out in church. So that's what that's one of the big things while I say I grew up in a big fit village family. That'll help out a lot. That'll help out us on the correctional side, too, too.

New Programs Inside Oklahoma Prisons

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah, yeah. And I don't know about you, but I I needed that many people watching me. Me too. But me too, same. Yeah. So yeah, tell me a little bit about Oklahoma Department of Corrections. I mean, uh, you've been working for him for over a decade now. You know, I don't hear a lot out of Oklahoma, except uh I had uh Dan Reynolds on here several podcasts ago, and he was a warden and uh was at the riot. Which one? Oh, I forgot which one it is. I should have looked that up before we came on air. But uh he told me the one you know, he was in one of the big riots. I think it was OSP. Right when they had a big riot back in the 70s or 80s. But what's some of the things you guys are doing there? What what's what's new in Oklahoma?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Basically, uh this year, this year, uh like, you know, usually every facility this is got its own its own little community, like, you know, culture. But this year across across the Oklahoma uh Department of Corrections, they basically did like a inmate gangs. They can't really say uh uh uh Olympics because it's you know the trademark. So they basically got all the inmates uh competing to basically go to another facility and compete against each other. And every inmate got like, you know, certain inmates to represent each other. So that's pretty neat on our part. And that's cool. All the inmates are, you know, they make shirts for them and they all like, you know, they got inmate shirts and they got staff shirts and they got the Olympic games. They they, I mean, not Olympic games, they say inmate games up there. And it's pretty neat because like the staff is, you know, the staff is crunk, they're making uh, you know, snow cones, they're running around, they actually give them something to do instead of just, you know, sitting in the cells and stuff. Um the programs, on top of that, the programs are getting a little are getting a uh a lot better within the corrections from when I first started. They they actually have a really good uh um team, team with with, I think it's called God Behind Bars. So like they've been providing a lot of like funding and stuff where we didn't have have none. Like basically like um entertainment systems. Basically bringing, bringing different, like basically, I grew up old school. I don't know, people really don't talk religion and stuff like that, but they bringing a lot of a lot of preaching back then into the church, a lot of, a lot of, you know, a lot of like bringing the the the pastors back in. They bring in a lot of like, you know, different religious differences, you know, not just for like not just for Christianity, but it's just whatever. If anybody got something going on, they bring a lot of uh religions back into within the corrections and stuff as well. I saw I saw a big concert one weekend, and it was it was pretty, you know, they had different parts where they all was singing and stuff, and they all eating, and um, it was pretty nice. And I was a case manager as well, so I kinda like I kind of always uh talked to the inmates about going to programs and basically don't let your current situation be their only situation because I have saw like life, like, you know, life, life inmates, like you know, as they call it, they're doing life, get stepped down with parole step downs as well. So I always try to, you know, talk to them about like different programs as well. If they have parole parole stipulations, I try to uh I try to speak life into them, you know, generally speaking, because basically certain certain inmates will have like an SAT, like, you know, a substance abuse treatment, and and I try to talk to them about different, you know, different facilities that have it, or try to give them the proper train of command to talk to, you know, talk to where they can so they can get the different programmings for their you know parole stipulations and stuff.

Security Meets Case Management Lessons

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Yeah. So, you know, that I that's something I never did. I I was security my whole career. So as a case manager, do you feel like you were able to affect some change with those guys more so than you were with security? Or do you think you can do it from both jobs?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

I feel I feel like both both ends, it just made me more rounded as a correction officer. Because as starting in starting in security, I didn't really understand policies. I didn't really understand how to look up policies. But when I went to case management and I I was actually working around people that'd been in been within the department 30 years, 40 years, and now they're teaching me stuff as the old folk, cool your heels, you know, slow down. Sure, sure. You know, trust but verify. You know, a lot of people don't really hear hear them terms anymore like that. And it actually built me even as the man to help me grow as the man, but within the decor within the corrections and and with and as the father as well. So it just basically helped me groan as well, you know, different, different, been around different people, different uh caseloads, different people that, you know, employees are working around them. I learned I learned basically the paperwork side of corrections as well, not just the the security side. I learned like basically like all the different steps. Like basically, if I write up an inmate, I know where it goes from point A to point B all the way to Z. You know, not just trying to, oh, I I wrote you up or anything like that. So I try to handle it, you know, you know, it basically being a case manager, it helped me learn the department, learn the system, and it helped me more rounded. So basically my more approachable and I'm more I'm knowing I'm more understanding I'm making, I feel like I'm more I'm having like a more effect, you know.

Mentoring Young Officers With Honesty

SPEAKER_00 19:28

I understand I understand that. More approachable. Yeah. More approachable. Yeah, yes, sir. Yeah. Yes. Sometimes in security, you know, we don't uh in corrections, we don't get very approachable. I was also interested in something else in your bio. You mentioned that, you know, as an African American leader in corrections. So do you get the chance to mentor younger black officers? And and what do you teach them? Because you're talking about a lot of resilience, you're talking about a lot of mentorship. What is it that you stress with them when they come in to help them do this job?

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Basically, I tell I just tell them straight up, you do your job.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Watch yourself, read policy. If if I see something, if if I if I see something, I'm not even gonna sugarcoat it. You get more, you get more, I tell them straight up, you're gonna get more, you're gonna get a lot of crap from your own kind. Not just, you know, the whites, the blacks, the Indians. You've been in correction, so you understand what I what I'm saying. So I give them straight up heads up, hey man, you gotta show, you gotta show up on time. You can't be, you can't be late all the time. If you're supposed to be, you know, you're supposed to be here at this time, you need to be here because as a supervisor, I can't ask my other supervisors to to, you know, the lieutenants and the sergeants, I can't ask them to supervise you if you're not here, not even on time, if you're not here at the facility. So uh that's my main thing, you know, if I see like if I see that. And uh I just give them forewarning, you know, and that's even like any correction officer, uh, you're gonna get crap from your own kind. So I try to give them that. That's my first, that's my first one. And then if they ask me, you know if the inmates are like doing something to them, like they don't understand you're gonna have to meet in the middle with inmates. Some officers come in and and they like, oh, I got the power, and they walk in there three, four o'clock in the morning and they yelling count time. And I try to tell them, you gotta meet in the middle because some of these inmates go to school, they go to class, they go to like, you know, they go to uh they go to work, they keep the facilities going. So I just try to tell them straight up, like, hey, meet in the middle, use your use your your non-verbal communication as much as your verbal communication, because it'll help you as well in in every time. So I just I just try to tell them different ways how to handle different uh situations. If they ask me any questions, I try to be more approachable because when I first started corrections, I worked around officers that said, you know, I'm not gonna learn their names. I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna speak to that officer basically because I don't know who they are. I was always, like I mentioned before, I was always brung in by by several, several different officers with open arms. So I try to, you know what I mean, if if if if they're doing the right thing, I try to bring them in. And even if they're not, I try to, you know, try to try to help them out to see to see if this job is for them. And sometimes corrections is not for them. So, you know, and and if they don't want to be in security, I even try to tell them like it's different options. You can go be a case manager, you can go be, you know, canteen worker, you can go work in the mail room, you know. Got your foot in the door with corrections now. I try to just, you know, di different options. It's not always cut and dry.

The Gate Encounter With A Provoker

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, I've said many times I don't know where I'd be if it wasn't for corrections because you know, I don't I I never fit into a job really well until I found corrections. And I w when I started, I didn't really want to be in corrections. It was just a job for a little bit. But I started enjoying it. I started enjoying training. I love training staff. I was like you. I had great mentors. That's why I push that so hard these days, is for us to go back and mentor the others and bring them along with us because I had such great mentors when I started. So that's why I was interested about that. And you mentioned that you know, resilience and mentorship, and those are the things that well, they help those new officers the most. Teaching them about how to get through each day, you know, not take it personally. So you kind of segued and and you know, I want to move on to the next section of this. So the other day, it was in the it was on TV and it was on uh YouTube, and you had a guy show up, and I'm not gonna give him the credit of putting his name out there because from what I read he's scum. But you had a guy show up who's one of those First Amendment people, and he's gonna show up and he's gonna try to provoke people, and he's looking for uh, you know, clicks and stuff on his YouTube channel, and he does this, he's a uh disbarred attorney. But he showed up at your correctional center, talking bad to everybody, right? Tell me a little bit about how that started. You were there. Tell me a little bit about how it started, and then we'll get into the rest of it.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Well, I'm gonna be honest, you know, as a supervisor, the show must go on. It don't matter what be thrown at you, the show must go on.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

So I was actually running Chow that day, and it'd been a long day, so I'm running Chow, and the perimeter officer, you know, he'd been there for a long time. He said, you know, shift supervisor, you know, it's 106. 106, I got somebody out here with camcorders, and I'm thinking he's just joking around because it's the end of the day. I'm like, ain't no way, you know, whatever. You know, I was just telling, like, just tell him to go on, you know, basically. And then he, you know, he basically, we could, we got these radios we can private line. And so uh um, when I first private lined him, you know, that's what he told me. And I told him, you know, just tell him to go on. And then as a as on the next time, he came back and he said, Well, they told me it's none of my business why I'm here. Just basically keep doing your job. And I'm like, now hold on, wait a minute. So, so I, you know, as a supervisor, I was like, hey, y'all got the child, you know, I delegated this, you know, y'all got food service, y'all got this right now. Go ahead and, you know, keep running child. I'm gonna go address this situation. And once he said that, all the other staff was alerted that like the deputy wardens and the chiefs, like both deputy wardens was there, and the chief of security was there. And basically, some of the other staff were still in the process of leaving because it was Friday, you know, basically the Friday before Easter. And so when we get, you know, and and and we had us, we had an inmate in the hospital, so so we're so we're trying to get out of there.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

One of those shifts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like everything was going on, you know. And so, and so we walk into gate one, which is like the main entrance, and one of the older officers was leaving, you know, here now. So that's how he got into the gate, you know, the like like basically not not into the he got into the sally port, the first gate, the outer gate one, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

So they popped him in thinking he was staffed because there was so much movement there.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Yes, sir. And they thought they they seen one officer head into the hospital, so they was letting him out. And so they didn't know what was going on, you know, you know, did you know how it is at a facility? You got 1,700 inmates, you know, X amount of staff. So you sitting there, you know, you sitting there going around left and right. And so we get to the, we, me, the chief of security, Chief Lumley, and uh both Deputy Wards, Deputy Johnson, and and Henry Underwood, we get out there to the gate. And so I I asked my supervisor, you know, Chief Lumley. I said, hey, do you think I you know, I look down, you're like, you know, you know, we can you know we can talk in non-code, and I mean, you know, uh verbal and non-verbal. So, you know, I looked at him, I gave him that look, I'm like, you know, you want me to? And he like, yeah, go ahead. So the body cam rolled back that minute, you know, where in body cams, uh, it rolls back a minute once you double tap it, once you activate it. And so once we, once we roll, you know, that's why I talked that little the other time before that. And so we all walking out, and then along, you know, along came uh Lieutenant Odom as well. So we, you know, we get out the facility, and and he was asking that, you know, the guy that was talking crazy. Yeah, you know, we're in gonna, I'm like, you're not even gonna discuss his name.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Uh he was just trying to, he was just trying to get any anything from any officer, you know. So he he had the perimeter there, and he was trying to question him, and the perimeter officer was like, you know, there's my chief of security. You can talk to the chief of security, he's right there. And so he's, you know, he's going on and on and on. So then he's approaching me because everybody kind of, you know, dispersed out. And uh the chief was like, Well, you can submit your, you know, you can submit your records for the open right, you know, the open act, and you, you know, you can go through our legal department. And so he didn't want to hear that. You know, he was like, tell us about a false number of deaths. And it's it wasn't even correct, you know, it wasn't even correct. And so uh we're trying to tell him, like, go through legal.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Let me ask real quick. So do you guys have signs posted? No, no videotaping, no cameras because of the security aspect of it.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

I don't, I don't, I know it's I know it's one at the the entrance. Okay. Don't quote me on the don't quote me on the the ver the word of it. But I know it's you know, I know it's say the I know it's a search and seizure, you know, the search and seizure one, like anybody that's on permissible. And I know we have a uh a trespassing time, but I don't think it's now we do for sure. Now it's you know, now it's out there for sure. But you know that at Allen Gamble, that the the state basically just took it over two and a half years ago. So it's basically still it's still a it's still we basically rent it from core civic. So basically it's a core civic facility, but DOC DOC runs it right now, but it is still owned by Core Civic. So so we still have you know certain things we have to, you know, talk to them about and make sure. So I know it's one down there, but I don't don't quote me on the wordage.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

That's okay. Yeah, I was just wondering if he had come past those signs. So there are signs out there. And if he's not there on official business, he's trespassing. So trespassing, right? Yeah. Go ahead. I didn't mean to stop you. I just had those questions.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

No, you're good. And so, you know, that uh that basically just started a whole deal because the chief the you know, it was the end of the day, wasn't nobody expecting that, you know, all that stuff to happen. So you know, we you know, we was just there as you know, supporting, you know, we we was just sitting there talking and and we was basically telling them, like, hey, you need to leave. You can be at, you know, at first, you know, it was a little different communication, so it was a little communication issue. And so at first we told them, like, you know, you can be in the parking lot, and but now we know for sure is you know, we all then verified it through each other for sure, it's it's the role. You can record at the role, but you cannot record, you know, coming to the parking lot. You know, you can't harass CTU because uh once I went in, the guy stayed there. You know, you know, we had Central Transport come in, he was over there recording them and harassing them. So it was a whole it's probably a whole another five more minutes that you know should have been recorded and put out there too.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

But see, the thing that worries me is if he and he he's a different kind of bad actor, but if you had a a bad actor out there trying to do surveillance on how we move inmates in and out during a medical trip or how we our security procedures, you know, if he was that type of person, so that's why I would be really nervous about having somebody up there videotaping in case they were going to use that for maybe an outside assault or something. Of course, I'm you know, I've had years of this ingrained in my head, so I'm always thinking, worst case scenario.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Right, right.

Responding Without Reacting On Camera

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah. Yeah, I d I saw that. I'll put a link in this, uh I'll put a link to that video in our notes here. The other thing that I saw was one of the and I wrote this in an article for corrections one, one of the one of the things I saw was one of the greatest displays of professionalism I've ever seen, and that was you, and that's why I I ask you to come on this podcast. You know, it's one thing, and all of us have been through it in in all different ways on the inside. Inmates say stuff to us that is horrible, that is, you know, they they're trying to get to you, they'll say stuff about your family, your ethnicity, everything like that. Just trying to get that rise out of you. But I don't think I've I don't at that level, especially the level, and w you can go into it or you can not, what he said. It was disgusting. But I don't think I ever heard anything from that level from the public from outside the fence. Right, right. So that that had to have just kind of been a shock, you know. It was. Why is this happening on the outside? Right. Can you tell me what you were thinking right then?

SPEAKER_02 32:08

The more the more I've been going through it, it's like I I you know, I was really shocked. And I'm thank God, you know, in the video, you see you see the chief, you know, tell me like like Dixon, go. And I thank God I actually went off because you know, you you don't know what you're so you never know what's what's which. And I thank God, you know, older, older me, 35-year-old me, thank God. Yeah, you know, mature me was was there, you know, and it wasn't younger than me. Because I wasn't thinking, you know, that that ain't never happened to me, but never in my life like that, you know. And I know like you grow up and people joke around, you play around and stuff like that, but never nothing like that to that, to that, you know, to that intent, you know, and like uh my family, my friend, like I said, my family's from Boley, which is a which is uh predominantly black town, you know, back in the olden days. And so history is is is ingrained in me, you know, from school, from with my family, and my family's so mixed up. So I know, you know, all type of history. So it was just shocking, you know what I mean? I I wasn't I wasn't expecting it. That's why I was like, and then I thank God my chief was like like diss and go because I was like, oh, I gotta go before for the for the wrong switch click off, you know. And that that's why I went on head and went in there, and that's why I kind of waited on on the other L. You know, you know how it is working in corrections. We all got our trauma buddies, we all got our little buddies, we all linked up with. And so that's why I looked at all of them. You know, you know, I looked at that one that came to the gate last night. Come on, get get in here, get in here. We ain't gonna do this today because we don't we don't come to work to be the bad guys. You know, we get labeled the bad guys just for our uniforms every day. Yeah, you know, and that's what uh helped me as a you know, as a correction officer. That's what uh when I went to case management, that's when I learned about the uniforms, you know what I mean. They're not cussing us, they're cussing the uniforms. And it was just it was just crazy, you know what I mean, when all that happened. So, you know, I don't mean to just ramble on like that, but God, you know what I mean? You just you was just it was just really shocking, you know, when it all happened like that. That's why I was like, what it what just really happened? And you know, the next day I like I didn't go to work and you you know what I mean? Like you, you know, just really just when I was re-watching the body cam and I was just thinking, I was like, this really just happened. What like come on man? Like it's 2026. Why we gotta be the you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah, yeah. Other other than the fact that this guy's a piece of crap, and he was just he was hoping beyond hoping that that was gonna make you snap. That that's all he wanted. And then of course it would have been his camera on YouTube, whatever. But I have to give props to the Oklahoma Department of Corrections, too. Because they released that video as is, so that everybody could see what he was doing and how that played out. Because we don't often do that. We're very poor, and I'm not talking about Oklahoma specifically, but as a profession, when things happen, we tend to hide it, we tend to be quiet and we don't put it out there. And that was one of those times that you know they were transparent and and that's so important because if they wouldn't have been transparent, he would have done all kinds of stuff even more so on his own channel or on his own whatever tweets or whatever that said all these bad things and nobody would have known. They'd have just thought, oh, it's another correctional officer being bad, because that's all these things. Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

And you were and you're totally right. Yeah. And and that that's why when the you know, you you know, when it first happened, and they didn't know it was that bad, and they didn't know it was that level and until until uh you know, my chief was mad. You know, some of my friends within within corrections was mad, and they got a hold of the director, and they like, you know, we need to watch this. You know, this is what happened, and he watched it. And once he once he watched it, he made contact with me, and he like, are you good? You know, so then they made contact with Lisa, so it was just going back and forth. And and I was like, I'm good with it. And they was like, Do you want to be blurred out of it? I was like, no, this is what this is what needs to be said, this is what needs to, you know, show the truth out there, what people go through. I was always taught, if you want to, you know, if you actually want something to change and you want something to, you know, you gotta be the change.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

That's what you know what I mean. That that's why I just I stay within corrections because I feel like, you know, I'm making a change. I'm doing my my part in community trying to, you know, get people, you know, back to society, you know, with a good foundation. Like, you know, prison, prison don't, you know, prison ain't gotta be hard, but you know, if you go this route and you show out, it can be hard, you know. So I just, you know.

Governor Commendation And Leadership Training

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Yeah, absolutely. And you it applaud Oklahoma Department of Corrections again. Not only did the director get involved in that, but let's I think you got a a little honor after that, didn't you, about how well you handled yourself. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yes, sir. Wednesday this past Wednesday, I got a I got a governor's dimension. I actually walked, I went with the director, I went with the chief of operations and the area manager. I met a lot of people. Now I didn't know the director of politics so much, and I met a lot of a lot of amazing people that I probably wouldn't have never met if this wouldn't happen. I really seen how, you know, not saying like down to earth, but I really seen like, you know, we're all just human beings, and we're just trying to make it day in through day out, you know, and so I was just it was an honor to meet the governor. You know, off top, you know, it was an honor to be with the director of do you you know, you see you see these different people, you know, behind the scenes on TV, you know, on the internet, but actually walking with them and actually talking with them, and you know, like it it it it was a truly honor, you know what I mean? That that, you know, it sucks that it actually happened like this, but it was just an honor, like, you know what I mean? Like, like that's what they was like. You know what I mean? We we was all just happy, you know what I mean? You know, the chief security, deputy wardens, the area manager, the director, you know. Uh like, you know, I I know the director of the director of corrections see them, you know, more than we do, but you know, not nothing to be recognized for somebody like, you know, doing their job, going above and beyond, you know, you it's just it was so many different variables that could have gone wrong for us for the whole agency, and then it would have been a whole nother, you know, bad thing again, you know, and then miss deal on on the correction. So like it.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

You know. Well well, and I I teach a lot of classes, and one of the things that we always talk about is learning to respond instead of react. And sometimes for young officers, and I was one of them, that's hard to do. Any tips there? What what was what was your do you remember the decision that you made to go take a breath? It's probably what you did. Take a breath, and then Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

I did take a breath. Uh, to be honest, when I became when I became a lieutenant, I went from running the yard, you know what I mean, just just straight contraband how I gotta get this, I gotta get everything, to actually have enough to manage for my people. And when I was a case manager, that's what that's my unit manager told me. He told me, like, your hardest deal is gonna be managing you're managing employees. And I'm like, man, no way. I can manage a hundred and something inmates like that, you know, there's nothing. And he was like, well, you just wait till you get to those uh employees. And so I actually had to go to uh training. I went to some leadership training because I I didn't I wanted to be an effective leader, you know. I didn't want to just be in the spot, you know, ha ha ha, I got this promotion and that's it. You know, like so so I went through uh basically like a year and a half worth of like leadership training. I went through uh the the Department of Corrections offers um extreme like extreme ownership training.

unknown 40:16

Great.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Great. Yes, sir. Yeah. I went through the uh basically it it's a year-long program they got now within the department. It's the 100X program, like the 100x uh leadership uh book, and it's a and basically you got like the it's basically like a uh like a whole group discussion, and you go in there and it's basically you you think you think you're not gonna learn nothing, but it's kind of like church. You know, you learn something about yourself, you learn something about like you know, you take back, and it's just basically like it takes back and it and it's a ripple effect. Because now, since I'm over at Alan Gamble, I'll use all this training when I was over there at you know at John Lilly, and it's just to help me, you know, promote and and keep people and effectively talk to people, like, you know, and being a supervisor, you know, we we gotta sometimes paint that face and just like the show must go on. But at the end of the day, some people may need that pat on the back or that data boy, or hey, I got some training for you to go to, you know, to do what I mean to go to. And it may actually help people because uh it may actually help you, you know, within the department and out of the department, you know. And so sometimes it's good, and especially really good because as a young officer, like I can be honest with you, because you, you know, you you've been a CO. So I can be honest, you know, as a young officer, you know, you you didn't got into it those couple times with different people where you're looking back like, man, I thank God I didn't get in trouble way worse than what I did because we could have been, you know, you know, because you know, it comes to and it comes to blows. And and I just thank God, like, you know what I mean? Like, I I tell them, like, don't, you know what I mean, think before you react, you know, take a breath, you know, trust, you know, take a walk. And even as a supervisor, you know, I should have some of my sergeants and, you know, our battle buddies, you know, somebody see me, we having a bad day. They're like, hey, go take a walk. Uh-uh. Go to your office, you know, go take you five minutes, go eat you something. You know, are you hungry? You know what I mean? And so that's like like different little stuff, you know. I'm glad I done went through, and I'm glad I done went through different things. And somebody, you know, checks and balances us as well as I can always be there for my, like, you know what I mean? My other support, my subordinates, as well as like, you know what I mean, my peers. Because, you know what I mean? You know, we always do that, it ain't no crime in prison. Ain't no, like, you know what I mean? And so sometime, you know what I mean, sometimes you may have to check in with somebody to make sure they okay before, you know what I mean. They're not going out there on the floor and emotional wreck. So, you know what I mean? We we didn't, we didn't went through a lot of stuff, you know what I mean. That's like losing officers, training, uh just being mature, you know what I mean? So that that's pretty much the tips I I really got got the people, you know, go talk to somebody.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Yeah, I th I think you're and you and I have a lot in common because we both chased leadership knowledge, but I think that's a perfect example of you didn't just come up at the moment with I'm gonna be this way or I'm gonna do this. This was a path for you. You had been through a lot of leadership training, you had thought about all this stuff so that when the moment came, and that's what training's all about, right? Is preparing for that moment. Whatever it is, you know, yours was this for now, it'll be something different next time. But that's what training is getting ahead of it, having some skills, having some knowledge so that you can make those right decisions when the time comes. And and you're I think you're a perfect example of that. Great job. Thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

I I appreciate it. Because the like, you know, going through different stuff, and and sometimes, you know, you take those little mental notes and put a little sticky note on the wall, you may see something. And my grandpa used to always say, is just keep working. You know, it'll be all right. Just keep working, you know, it'll be all right. And sometimes I gotta take the little note and stick it up there and remind myself, like, you know, it's gonna be okay. You know, it's okay to have a bad day, you know, but don't go, don't go messing up somebody else's day because you're having a bad day, you know. And so, like, you know what I mean? You know how it is, incorrections, you know. Sometimes you gotta go eat pro. Sometimes you gotta, hey, this is my path, I'm gonna down this hill, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

So I I listened to my father many times. My father used to tell me when I say I didn't I don't like doing this or I don't want to do this. He'd say, Sometimes we might we d sometimes we have to do things we don't want to, and you might as well go do it well. And uh there was many days in corrections that I thought, okay, you know, I'm on I gotta do this anyway, so I might as well do it well.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

And might as well do it with.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

We learn we learn from our family, don't we?

What The Public Misses About Trauma

SPEAKER_02 44:53

Yep, yes, sir. That's what some of the younger officers would be like. I always like when you get on a tangent and then you say something country, like I always tell them I said, Well, some of y'all, y'all work harder. Y'all work harder to get out of work than to just doing the work work ahead, you know. And they always laugh. And and I'm a frontline supervisor. I'm not a part of sitting on my tail supervisor, you know what I mean? And and I get more, you know, I get more buy-in, I get more feedback. I ask them what's going on. You know, it's not always my way of a highway with with my, you know what I mean, with my team. And uh it always sucks when you build good teams and they promote, you know what I mean? That's the that's the greatest achievement, you know, that's the greatest, you know, accomplishment and the greatest deal that you can receive when your team's starting to promote out and and go into different, you know, the fields and stuff within the agency. But it's like, golly, dang, you was a good one. Like, you know what I mean? Dang, you was a good one, you know what I mean? But but that's what, you know what I mean? Like my role, like I I was talking to some of my cousins and my brothers and stuff yesterday, and and I was telling them, I was like, it's it's it's it's crazy how the world how my career is starting to change. You know what I mean? I'm the go-to person, you know what I mean? Like, like people were from different eight, you know, different facilities. They'll they'll come to me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I haven't talked to some people for two, three years, and they come to me, and I'm like, Well, this is what you do, you know, you know, this, this, and this. And I'm like, Well, I didn't know. I guess I'm the old guy now. Like, you know what I mean? After 10 years, I'm the old guy. So it's just coming with, you know, coming with territory now.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Let me ask you one last question. I uh you know, what you did and the way you handled it wasn't just a pat on your back, it was a pat on corrections back. I was I was proud to be part of corrections. I was proud to see you get that from the governor, you know. And what do you what do you wish the public knew about our job? About what we see, what we do, what we go through. What what is it that because they don't get a good picture. What do you wish if you could give them a picture, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 47:03

They don't understand basically and I'm not trying to when I say this, I'm not no Trump on no other like military, no other first responder, nobody say this. But I wish I could tell the public, I wish I could tell everybody, in corrections, we go through way more trauma than any military. We're in our combat zone day in and day out. Now it's not like that at every facility, but at the end of the day, it's somebody may die, somebody may OD, I may have to tell somebody to call home, you know, call home. You know, it may be something serious. I don't know what's going on, but your family's calling for you, you know? And then I may have to go deal with somebody that's like, you know, a staff member, and I gotta go tell them, you know what I mean, something's going on with their family, or I gotta send the officer out in the ambulance, and you know, we don't never know what may go on within our circus. So like I feel like, I feel like the public, I feel like we don't get, we always get labeled as the bad guys. We always get labeled as the people that's put their people behind the bars or or not giving them no help and or not, like, you know, but at the end of the day, we're not, you know, we're just we go through so much trauma, we go through so much uh stuff day in and day out, and we still right back in the trauma zone, you know. Especially like the the earlier, you know, the 80s and the 90s corrections and early 2000 corrections. Prison was prison, you know? Like it, you know, it was bad. And for example, you know, Alan Gimbel's not not labeled, you know, it's not always labeled as the the greatest prison. And and they don't see the the the good and the bad. They don't they always just see we always in the wrong. It's not all, it's not, you know what I mean? It's it's a lot of stuff that goes on. And you know what I mean? They always like, well, we wish we had more staff, or you know what I mean? Is it's your fault that they got the knives, and it's your fault they're doing this. And I'm like, well, it ain't our fault. We just trying to keep people out the prisons, you know. You you know how it is working in in prisons? We're trying to keep trying to keep the public out of the prisons, you know. You know, we're not giving them the knives, we're not giving them all this stuff like that. And and so I just wish the public would see, like, we're not, you know what I mean, when we have a death inmate, you know, an inmate dealing with it, we still hold that stuff on, even as officers. You know, we're we still still deal with stuff amongst us. You know, it's not always just like, you know, cut and dry cookie couple, you know what I mean? We we still got a lot of trauma too on our end, you know what I mean, as well too, when we're dealing with stuff as well, working within the correction. So that's why, that's why I said we we go through a lot of, you know, we go through a lot of trauma, a lot of try a comeback, and we don't get to go, you know, six months off or two years off. We're right back in the trauma day in and day out. We got a death here, we got a OD here, we got a stabbing over here, and we still, you know what I mean, day in and day out. We got to come back to work, you know what I mean? So I just you know what I mean, check on your people, you know what I mean, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

So Absolutely. That that's that's one of the main things, and I love your concept of battle buddy. Have that person you can go talk to, have that person you can go vent to, and then let them vent to you. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you said the public doesn't get to see the good and the bad, they just see the bad. And I will I will tell you and I will thank you for being the person that showed them the good. And thank Oklahoma Department of Corrections for for going ahead and sharing that as tough as it was. And uh I appreciate you coming on the podcast. Man, thank you, Mike, for that.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Yes, sir. Look, yes, sir. Yeah, I I I'll be glad to come meet you, man. I appreciate you having me, and it's a truly honor. And I'm uh I wrote uh my aunt saw your your article. She she's uh she's basically NAACP president, and she was so she applauded you so much, and she's she thanked, you know, that it's not just an incident that's just basically getting swept under the rug, you know. So she she was she was she was happy about about your article, you know. She saw it and so she commented on that. She called me, she, you know, we talked about it as well. So thank you. Uh you know, I appreciate it, mate.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

That's great to hear. That's very cool. Yeah. Thank you, Tevin. Yes, sir. Thank you. And uh we'll talk again someday. All right, thank you, Mike. Thank you for joining me. Bye bye, guys. Yes, sir. Bye bye. Stay on here, don't click off. Okay. I I'm gonna hit stop.