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The Prison Officer Podcast
The Prison Officer Podcast is a place where prison officers and correctional staff share their experiences, discuss leadership, cope with stress, and learn survival strategies for one of the toughest careers out there. Hosted by Michael Cantrell, this podcast delves into the lives, dreams, and challenges faced by those who work inside the walls of our nation’s prisons. It features interviews, insights, and discussions related to the unique and demanding world of corrections. Whether it’s overcoming difficult leaders, understanding rehabilitation, or addressing misconceptions about incarcerated populations, the Prison Officer Podcast provides valuable perspectives from professionals in the field.
The Prison Officer Podcast
115: From Rookie to Rank - Interview w/Matthew Hyde
Leadership in corrections doesn't come from a badge or title—it emerges from integrity, trust, and the willingness to shield your team during difficult times. Matthew Hyde, leadership strategist and author of "From Rookie to Rank," shares his remarkable journey from new correctional officer to CERT Commander without formal rank.
Matthew's story begins with an unexpected path into corrections after brief experiences in college and the National Guard. Within six months of starting at a county jail, he was selected as a Field Training Officer, discovering his natural talent for developing others. The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Matthew discusses becoming the first non-ranking CERT Commander in his department's 25-year history. Rather than attempting to assert dominance over higher-ranking team members, he built trust by acknowledging their experience and seeking their input. "I established that when you walk into the CERT locker room, there is no rank—we're just positions," he explains, detailing how this approach eventually earned him respect across generational divides.
Perhaps most valuable are Matthew's insights on leading through organizational challenges. He candidly shares his experience protecting his team during difficult administrations, emphasizing that when leadership falters from above, frontline supervisors must continue shielding their staff. "You still got to lead. Your people depend on you," he insists, offering practical wisdom for navigating politics while maintaining operational excellence.
Whether you're aspiring to move up the ranks or seeking to improve your leadership effectiveness where you stand, this conversation delivers actionable strategies for building high-performance correctional teams. Matthew's journey demonstrates that in the challenging world of corrections, the most powerful leadership comes not from authorit
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Hey guys, before I get to our first guest, I just want to take a moment today and thank Pepperball. You know they've been a sponsor of the Prison Officer Podcast for more than three years and without their sponsorship I wouldn't be able to bring this content to you. We wouldn't be able to have these great conversations with these leaders and trainers in corrections. You know I used Pepperball for more than 20 years when I was working in the institution. It was something I believed in, so it was easy for me when I got the chance to become a master instructor for Pepperball. I get to go out and train law enforcement and corrections and I get to see you guys in the field, so I really appreciate that. The great thing about Pepperball is it gives the officers the confidence to have a tool that they can use that they know is going to work. If you would reach out to Pepperball wwwpepperballcom and thank them for sponsoring the Prison Officer Podcast and, while you're there, see all the new things that are part of the Pepperball family, hello and welcome back to the Prison Officer Podcast. My name is Mike Cantrell and today I have a guest, matthew Hyde.
Speaker 1:Matthew is a leadership strategist, author and podcaster with a decade of experience leading high-pressure correctional teams. He served as a correctional sergeant, cert commander, mobile field force commander and instructor. He gained firsthand experience in managing complex operations and making high-stakes decisions in these positions. He's an FBI leader. L, l, e, e, d A. If you guys have seen that, it's a leadership trilogy, a road, I'm going to cut that out. He is an FBI leader, leadership trilogy award recipient and holds a bachelor in organizational leadership and an MBA in management from Indiana tech. He specializes in translating lessons learned and corrections into actionable strategies for leaders in any environment, helping teams build accountability, resilience and high performance. He's the author of a new book, from Rookie to Rank, and we'll talk more about that. He is passionate about empowering leaders to set clear standards, lead with integrity and cultivate teams that thrive under pressure.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Prison Officer Podcast, matthew. Hi, thank you very much, absolutely. I'm glad to have you on here. The people that listen to this podcast regularly know when I've got guests. I want to know who they are and how they got in corrections. So start me out at the beginning. Where'd you grow up and how'd your life progress from there?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I grew up like right in the middle of Indiana, so nothing going on around us. Grew up playing pretty competitive baseball, traveled the country as a pitcher, had some scouting reports, teenage mistakes, gotten that passion of my career of trying to be a baseball player. But I just wanted to live a normal life, went off to college for a year, learned what it's like to not have practice or anything going on. So all that freedom probably too much freedom One year of college. It was time to come back home. I figured, hey, I'm just going to be an entry-level guy everywhere I go. I was just going to accept that. But as I got older, that really isn't what I wanted to do. I saw people doing cool jobs with decent money and that's what I wanted to do. I saw people doing cool jobs with decent money and that's where I wanted to go. So I started looking into the military. The National Guard hooked me pretty quick because I wasn't sure if I really wanted to dive into that. I was still a mama's boy, I didn't want to go too far from home, but I still wanted to make a difference. It's for something bigger than myself. So I went down to Fort Benning. 11 Bravo Infantry made it all the way through Training.
Speaker 2:Accident shattered my arm, still stayed in for about five years, but off and on I had about five or six surgeries to try to get okay. So a lot of my time was not really spent out in the field, it was spent helping the officers around or the higher ranking sergeants. So that's where I kind of started noticing what they were doing, what was working, what wasn't working, and it was really introduced me to ego and different aspects of that. Got out of the National Guard, started working some odd jobs I was selling garage door parts for a little bit. I just really wasn't liking that. I had this dream of becoming a police officer. I was like, all right, let's start off in jail, let's see how that goes.
Speaker 2:Started off, I was hired as a juvenile officer at first, which is a totally different realm. If anybody's ever worked juvenile, that's that's its own craziness. They're starting to be some. That's not police or correct. No, that is a different world. It is not the same there. So there were some cutbacks going on and they were worried about maybe cutting some juvenile staff. So what the sheriff did was he allowed some of the juvenile staff to move over to the jail Like perfect, let's do that. Fell in love with it right away. Within like six months I was already becoming an FTO. So that's when I really started feeling like somebody sees something in me. That's when I really started feeling like somebody sees something in me and after that I really started to dig this passion of all right, so somebody sees something in me and leading people and teaching people I know what I'm doing, let's hone in on this. And I just went 100 miles an hour there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so walk me back to the first time you walked in the jail. What was that like? What do you remember? What's the sights and sounds?
Speaker 2:of? Had you ever been in jail before? No, no, no. Just for that. I'm not built for jail. There's no way I would last a second, but I like having a key to walk out it was different.
Speaker 2:Anybody knows. The smell is different. The energy is thick. It's either kind of calm or extremely hectic. I think the first day I walked in there's there's a dude like mule kicking a door and staff's just like walking around, like it's not a big deal. I'm like what? What is this? And you know somebody's getting brought up. So I'm like this is like this. They're like this doesn't usually happen, like it was just a one of those first days of like whoa dude right, but so how large was your jail?
Speaker 1:how many inmates did you guys handle?
Speaker 2:I think we could house around 500, maybe a little bit more if we needed to pretty good size jail yeah, pretty decent size and we were, you know, we needed an additional area. We were, we were bunking, you know, three like three inmates to one cell, so the hostility was really high. We were kind of landlocked to what we could do so we came in at a pretty hectic time so maybe that was helpful once they did expand. But yeah, it was a pretty big jail and a lot of, you know, upset people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people tend not to be happy when they go visit jail. It's usually not a good trip. Some are You'd be surprised. Well, yeah, there are some that show up. Hey, good food, a mattress, exactly. So you start off as an officer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just right off as an officer. Okay, and what's your next?
Speaker 1:as an officer. Yeah, just right off as an officer. Okay, and what's your next step after officer?
Speaker 2:So I'd ride into FTO. So I was, you know, about six months in. I started training people and then I wanted to learn more and I figured the best path to learn more was to become an instructor. So I wanted to not just Tell me about your yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd love to hear about your FTO program, cause that's something that I've been dealing with a lot in the last year. Tell me about your guys' FTO program. When, a when a new recruit shows up, a new trainee, what's the program?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when we've. When I first started, it was just a hey, hi, here's a, here's a trainee for you. Today, like today, I haven't put my food down yet. I have a trainee for how many weeks? I don't even know this person.
Speaker 2:Okay, I wasn't planning on training, but being an FTO and then offering my ideas helped out a lot because we had some say For a while. What we were doing is we were having all the ftos take a disc assessment and we'd have all the trainees take a disc assessment and that way we knew who to match up with. Because you don't want, like, a dominant personality with a very analytical personality like me, very high analytical me being trained by somebody who's more of a dominant. You know just that, doesn't? You know to me they don't think anything through, so we would bash heads constantly. You know that it didn't help our retention. So, yeah, so we started doing that. And then we started having our, our officers go through an actual fto certification course. Okay, which there weren't a lot for corrections, but we were still sending them off to, like law enforcement, which is fine.
Speaker 2:But you know, I started to see these needs of like. We need a corrections based because it's it's not the same. You know we're not stuck in a car with them for hours or weeks. You know we can at least weeks, months, we can at least expand out and walk around and kind of I don't know, it's just very different. But we're having them actually certified to at least talk to other people, see what it's like to FTO. And then we had maybe a sergeant that would overlook the whole FTO program and then match people and work with, with the instructors, you know, during the academy. How is this person acting? What do you think we could work on? Who do you think would match best with this person? So still very informal. I'm not sure where they're at today, but I know a lot of places are trying to advance the fto program because that's where the retention is yeah, yeah, command presence.
Speaker 1:That's what I've been working on this year. We developed the coach train evaluate method for correctional training officers, which was a law enforcement one, but I took and revamped it and we did our first class in Michigan last month. Got another one coming up. Oh, that's great. Yeah, when people were looking there's not a correctional training. Well, there wasn't a specifically correctional training officer course that talks about you know what correctional officers need. The thing that's hard is the timelines. What was your guys' timeline? Because there is nothing across this nation as a you know, a set timeline. It's all over the place, from a couple of days to a few months. Yeah, you know what was your guys's timeline?
Speaker 2:I think it was like six weeks okay that's not bad from what I see, but I've been, I go places. They're like, hey, we need this person ready, uh, two weeks. Like uh, I know you want that, but that's yeah, we don't know who we're getting. They might need more time. Or I think another issue is some people maybe don't pass FTO and accepting. That is okay, it's fine, there's a lot on the line. And if they don't make it through FTO, we can't just put butts in seats. We also have to be open to you. Didn't pass FTO, you go to the road. You fail FTO, you're done, that's it. Corrections needs to be if they're going to be held to a high standard or an equal standard, it seems like in court, then we have to do the same thing, because I know all of our guys would rather run short with a bunch of studs than a packed house full of turds. I don't, you know, I don't know what, because that's your backup. Your family relies on that.
Speaker 2:And if they don't can't pass FTO, that there's an issue here. So I think accepting that you don't pass is it's okay, it's part, it's just part of the game.
Speaker 1:That's a great point and I won't ask you to answer for where you were at, but I will mention that. You know I talked to a lot of CTOs and FTOs and the pressure they get from admin, from the sheriff, from the warden, to get people through, sometimes if they're not the right person, and we all know it. But recruitment and retention is so high on the list right now, they're like I don't care, push them through, I'll take them for a few weeks, and then I go to a class and I'm I'm listening. I've got three different sheriff's departments in the same state there and they're talking about a guy that they have all hired and fired in the last like two and a half years, you know, and this guy's just spreading hate and discontent where he goes and but they're not, they're not vetting them. And you're absolutely right. You hit the nail on the head. I'd rather have one person that I can trust than 10. I can't working with me every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that you need to value what your FTOs are saying, like if they're the, they're the one like they'll be so honest. But if you're like we don't, we don't you're almost you hear it as like we don't care about your opinion. Get them through. You're like I don't care how well they're trained, but the one time that person screws up.
Speaker 2:The first thing everybody asks is well, who trained them? He told you they weren't working, it wasn't working out. But they see it as like an attack where the FTO might be picking and choosing, but you've picked that person to be an FTO, so there's some level of trust and opinion in there. Value that it's such an impactful.
Speaker 1:Part of leadership is just listening and being like, hey, if you say so, but if it backfires, but if you guys are saying so Well, and I don't mean to be a little advertisement here but one of the main things with FTO and CTO is the documentation. There's so many places that the documentation is well, they were here today. They were here today. No, we've got to document daily observation reports. What did they do? How did they do it? And for two reasons One, we can justify why we kept them or why we didn't, and then, two, you've got that backup as an FTO. When something comes because there is liability with training and we may talk more about that being an instructor and being a training officer there's liability. So if you're in those positions, having that documentation is what protects you, also down the road when this person does something that they weren't trained to do or that they weren't supposed to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't know if it's like an undervalue of corrections Because you know, at county levels a lot of times the sheriff will pick a road deputy to come in who's not dealt with the jail. So it's just kind of like they already have this view of the jail it's like no big deal, whatever, we'll just transfer people.
Speaker 1:But legally there's so much liability to it because if the fto is like the same liability that there is for the, the patrol exactly.
Speaker 2:It's the same courtroom, it's the same judge, it's the same jury. So like same case. What are we doing? So if you really want to protect yourself, you know, an fto is such a good start in leadership like if you want to learn how to manage people that you don't. If you want to throw a baby in the water, all right, you're an FTO. It is a hard job, it is not easy and it's not meant for everybody. It's a big deal. So that should be your frontline supervisor. Do you have any FTO experience Until then? We'd love to have you rank up, but maybe go FTO for a while and see how you can manage one person, let alone 20, you know.
Speaker 1:Right. So how did? How long did you stay at FTO? So, maybe a couple of years.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then you promoted Well. So then I went to instructor and a lot of of times just to kind of not spread too thin because I was already teaching the new hire academy. I didn't want to build a certain relationship there and then go to FTO, Because FTO hide is not necessarily instructor hide. But I also want to open the door to other people. So if I'm taking on something already, I'll focus 100% on instructor. Because I got to go to specialty schools, I got to go through a whole bunch of stuff. So FTO was just kind of like a foot in the door to show my interest, Moved over to instructor and then so yeah, it wasn't maybe a couple years in FTO.
Speaker 1:Right and, as an instructor, what does that entail in your department?
Speaker 2:So in Indiana you go through the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy Instructor School. Okay, it's a week-long certification and then that certifies you in to teach anything law enforcement within the state of Indiana. Okay, so I went through that course okay, so I went through that course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything from firearms to self-defense, or do you go to additional training for firearms and self-defense and all?
Speaker 2:that separate. So this, this would just be like how to be an instructor. Here's your how to do your documentation. Here's the legal liability side of instructing. Okay, so it's like a basic week-long course. Then after that you go to your agency and you follow their SOPs.
Speaker 1:Okay. So yeah, train the trainer. You're a general train the trainer, you can step into any of those and teach that.
Speaker 2:So if it's just like a.
Speaker 1:Tell me about that. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say tell me about that. What was that like as an instructor, as a position there?
Speaker 2:Very busy. Working nights was difficult because you know, hey, we've got these amount of people that need trained in this. Maybe pick a couple specialties and of course you know I really like tactics. So I started out as a taser instructor. You know, started looking into more of the cert side. I wasn't on cert yet but I think I was considering it Less lethal, so I wanted to be an OC instructor. I went through a training covered 40 millimeters, 37 millimeter, flashbangs, oc.
Speaker 2:I became an OC instructor and I started doing that for a while, certifying all the new jail staff on Taser and OC, and a lot of it was scenario based. So it helped me expand my mind and kind of come up with these crazy scenarios for them to go through. So that helped out a lot. Being an instructor helped out a ton because the only way to really know something is to have to teach it and I knew that. So if I'm going to be the best at something, I need to know how to. I should probably try to teach it Because now I have to be the master, I'm the guy. So yeah, it was very busy, rewarding, tiring. It was all the emotions you know it's like, oh geez, it's fun spraying the new hires the first few times and then after that it's just like God geez, does it take so long? It's not. Yeah, it loses its fun quick once it gets real. So it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's cool. So how long did you do that so?
Speaker 2:seven years. I'm still an instructor now. So, just nonstop. Okay so what'd you step off into? Did you go ahead and move into cert? Yeah, so I I joined cert around. Uh, you know, the same time I became an instructor I was just a regular team member doing all the the new guy grunt stuff, you know. But it was a good time, it was fun getting started on that and what exactly does theERT team do at your agency there?
Speaker 2:So CERT at the uh, it was a county level, uh. So we did all call outs. So it was cell extractions, uh, riot operations, hostage rescue, high risk, high profile transports, uh, really, anything that essentially was to take liability off staff. So if it's something that you know kind of guaranteed, maybe a sort of use of force or something a little bit more specialty, they would call CERT in to kind of take on that liability. Because we trained more, we had more. You know, most of us were all instructors already, so we teach the stuff. So, yeah, a little bit of everything full-time, or was it a full-time game? I wish it had been a lot, a lot easier, but I mean, we were busy, but we still had to honor our shift.
Speaker 1:So okay, so you went from there, I, I got here. That you're. We're also the mobile field force commander. Walk me through that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in 2020, our CERT commander went to the road. So we had a process and I wasn't. I wasn't, I had no rank yet I was like, all right, well, it's, it's open to anybody on the team. So I I went for it. I studied really hard, I worked hard, I went through the interview process and the team's about. They're 25 years old at the time, so I became the first non-ranking CERT commander. So I had no formal rank whatsoever and that's typically not what happens on that team. So definitely learned to navigate some emotions there. But that was 2020.
Speaker 2:So there were some riots and some stuff going on around the country where a lot of agencies kind of just got caught unprepared. They had the tools, they had all this stuff. Not one person trained in it, so they were just going to throw people to the wolves and hope for the best. But, as we learned, that is a horrible idea and they got caught, and so we didn't want to get caught. So the sheriff decided well, since CERT already has the riot gear, and they got caught, and so we didn't want to get caught. So the sheriff decided well, since CERT already has, you know, the riot gear and they've trained in riots, let's go ahead and have them start a mobile field force unit. So we get an email saying that Matt Hyde is the mobile field force commander.
Speaker 2:So I looked at my jail commander. I was like what is mobile field force? I have no idea even what that is. He goes. What is a? What is mobile field force? I have no idea even what that is. Um, he goes, I don't know, dude. So we Googled it, found out. I was like, cool, perfect. A couple of weeks later I fly down to Texas for a week to go learn how to take on ride operations and stuff like that. Come back, train my team. They would end up training the agencies within our County. So the the local law enforcement agencies were calling us up to and then we had this big training which I really wanted to unite everybody together. So on paper it sounded very simple. But as jail guy no rank, riot operations, police stuff let me tell you the cops loved that. They were very, very receptive to the jailboy with no rank telling them what to do. So navigating that was difficult, but we did it. So we did really well. Ended up, they all adopted our program. So, yeah, successful, but a lot to take on.
Speaker 1:If you don't mind me asking, what training or who'd you go to down there in?
Speaker 2:texas safari land. We did safari lands ride operations. That was a really good course. Really enjoyed it, right in the middle of the.
Speaker 2:They've been doing it quite a while yeah yeah, and it's cool working with some places because a lot of the places down there had had been through large protests. So you know, we had some dallas swat guys. Uh, it was in weatherford, texas, where they actually had a pretty big protest there themselves over statues. So hearing their firsthand experience was really eye-opening. It was taught by some officers from Houston PD who I guess they have over like 250 demonstrations a year so they're very well-versed in it. But yeah, the middle of a desert riot trainingiana guy, I was not comfortable yeah, 100 degrees and cs, what, what more could you ask?
Speaker 1:man? It was a blast, I tell you so, coming into that position, and I think that's a position that a lot of people step into, whether they stay inside corrections or whether they take on team leadership. But and that we'll get into your book a little bit more. But you talk about from rookie to rank and you're dealing with people who outrank you, people who probably have more time than you, people who possibly have more experience in some areas than you do. I was put in that position myself. How did you deal with it? What? What was it? What did you learn from that? Maybe you made some mistakes up front, that's fine. But what did you learn from that on how to deal with that?
Speaker 2:Well. So I think it was nice because I didn't have an option. It was there. I couldn't be like.
Speaker 2:So it's like, dude, you got to figure this out. You can't come in hot and heavy. That's exactly what they're expecting you to do. So I could have came in and been like this is what we're doing. We're changing the game.
Speaker 2:I'm in charge, and there was guys on the team. They had been on the team longer than me, they had rank, so on paper they 100% should have been picked over me, but I had to kind of not separate those guys to show who's in charge, which is maybe what they're expecting. Maybe what a lot of people would do is show force. But what I want to do is bring them together and acknowledge you guys have been on this longer than me. You have Frank. What do I need to know? Where do we need to be?
Speaker 2:So I mean, it was difficult because there's also staff that didn't agree with that. There were sergeants that weren't on CERT, that disagreed with that, and they wanted to show that, well, you may be cert commander, but I'm the sergeant you know. It's like okay, dude, we're I. I know everybody knows who you are, what you are. So then I kind of established this when you walk into in the cert locker room, man, there's there is no rank, like we're just positions. But when it comes down to we're, we're a team, we're going to work together, we're going to get through this. I know better than you. It's just when things go well you guys get the praise.
Speaker 2:When things go bad, I go to the corner office and get told about it Like that's, that's it. I'm going to take the lashings for you guys. I'll. I'm the scheduling of the training. I do all this. I just make sure you guys run the team. So it took some time but once they saw my intentions it got better. And then how my goal was to advance the team. I wasn't thinking like a team member, I was thinking like a team commander. Thinking like a team commander. I'm not thinking of the small tactics stuff or the team movement stuff. So I think that's what helped was you know, maybe just a different mindset.
Speaker 2:It was interesting navigating it though.
Speaker 1:I think you're absolutely right. You know you are the team commander. You're not going to be the person on the line standing out front going follow me boys, and that takes us. A lot of people take that as being okay. I'm the team commander, everybody's going to follow me. We don't follow you.
Speaker 1:We decide who's going to be in what position, we decide what tactics are going to, what this team's going to specialize in, and then and I did it quite a bit and I think it makes a difference and then, once we decide all that, now I go grab a batonon, I go grab a mask and I go stack up in the back of the squad. Those are the leaders. They're the ones that are going to be on there, they're going to be reaching out to that commander or that. You know the person with rank in a real situation. And yes, I'll be sitting in the trailer at the end of that phone or radio for you.
Speaker 1:But during training it, nothing, I think, builds that camaraderie more than just to grab a baton and get in the back of the squad and do the drills, do the gas, do everything with the people and they feel you as part of that team. But if we're always, and I had so many of those that would stand there and watch us everybody go through the gas, you know, and they'd laugh and they'd heckle and they'd do this. They never went through it. Well, well, there's no respect when you come out on the other side of that no, you know, that's my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's well, if I'm the one always making all the decisions, what do I need you for? Like, if I'm the one with with the weapon system, then I don't. I don't, like, I need everybody and I need them to replace me. So I'm going to put you in positions to make calls like that. You're on this team, just like we would bring on a brand new person. You know we had a I would establish a pretty decent, you know, vetting process, but once you're on the team now it started you need to bring something to the team. There's only so much we're going to teach you. We'll teach you the basics, but you need to bring something. And if you're on this team, you're a leader and I'm going to develop leaders, um, and future sergeants, and you know, future jail command or, like you know people that can think outside the box, um, and if you can't do that, if you need me to make every call for you, I don't need you right like I've got my stuff going, because my headset.
Speaker 2:I have all the high ranking staff talking. Yeah, I have team leaders that need to be going to do that right.
Speaker 1:And the way to give them and grow them is to give them the situations where they get to make those decisions. And it's not just listening to you, just listening to me, isn't the best way to do anything. I need people out there who can make decisions, because they're the ones with the eyes on, they're the guys who are facing it, who are seeing what's really going on, not having it relayed, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think it was important that I would have it to where, since I'm the team commander, I only really need to be communicating with the team leaders when it came to assert stuff. Like if it was just we could talk like a very cool. But if you had a question about when's this or what's training, like what's going on, like you need to go to your team leader, not me. So I would kind of take that as like hey, team leaders, why are your guys coming to me? What do they not feel comfortable coming to you? Or because now I'm thinking you know for an operation that's who you need to be talking to. So we're establishing that early. If you have a question, you go to your team. Like your team leader is your person, that is your team commander, and that chain of command helped out a lot because during a large operation they would already be used to going to that person. So we were kind of instilling that and I put a lot of value on team leaders and everybody else.
Speaker 1:And that transcends teams. For me, if you're working a housing unit and inmates aren't asking you questions as an officer, you're not running that housing unit. If you're a sergeant and your officers aren't asking you questions, then you're not looked at as a leader. So I think that transcends teams. That's corrections as a whole, yeah, and there's for me training.
Speaker 2:It might have sounded very nitpicky, or don't talk to me, but really I'm just training you to use like chain of command is one, not optional obviously, but but it I mean it. It teaches a lot more in leadership, so just you know, knowing who to go to next is is always you know, I don't know. There's a lot more to it than just the nitpicky stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I mentioned a couple episodes ago when I was talking about leadership, it also gives the person in charge the opportunity to fix that problem. If you go past them, if you skip them, they don't have the opportunity to take care of that problem. They don't have the opportunity to make decisions. They don't have the opportunity to bond with their officer. So yeah, I'm a huge chain of command.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think a lot of people. They want people to come to you, even if it skips the person. Like open door, like yeah, but I need them to also handle it Like that's their gig. I don't mind helping you if they're not here or whatever. Or if you don't feel comfortable there's something, then there's more to that, but you need to go to that person. That's the next in line, yeah.
Speaker 1:So apparently you made Sargent. Yeah, yeah so when did that happen?
Speaker 2:So I I had tested the first time and I failed the test. So the the testing process was like read four or five books, read all policies, procedures, take a. Can I?
Speaker 1:ask which books man? I'm always interested in. What leadership books? Do you remember any of them?
Speaker 2:So I mean there was one. It was like basic corrections, case law and stuff, and then I think John Maxwell's Five Levels of. Leadership was one of them. No, yeah, I don't remember because I took it twice. So I read a lot of books. They were good books, they were decent, it was just a lot.
Speaker 2:I've been COing for a while, not really reading books I read some Jocko stuff and listened to the podcast and stuff like that. But then to take a test I haven't taken a test in forever, I don't even know what to do anymore so I missed it by like 2%. A test like man, I haven't taken a test in forever, I don't even know what to do anymore. So, uh, I missed it by like two percent. And that's in the middle of me being cert commander. So that was a you know, pretty embarrassing um, you know battling that because like, oh, this cert commander can't even pass. Yeah, it's a test man, like I, I can, I'm still still leading people. But then I take it the second time and I pass. I get put on the list.
Speaker 2:At that time, around 2020, I was working in video courts because of COVID, which helped out, because I was taking on mobile field force and CERT and there's a lot going on. It was hard to do it on shift because then I'd have to do it at home. So the jail commander it on shift, because then I'd have to do it at home. So the jail commander, they needed somebody to run their video court systems In between court hearings. I would do that. So it was Monday through Friday, holidays off. I'm loving it.
Speaker 2:They're like hey, hyde, you're next up for sergeant. Do you want to take it? I'm like no, no, I got a really good schedule. I have never cared about titles or rank. It does not mean anything to me whatsoever. Like your character is what it shows and I know I'm a good leader. I don't need a label or a sergeant label.
Speaker 2:But then it really didn't come up to me like all right, well, we're eliminating your position. Do you want sergeant now? Like, yeah, yeah, all right, so then. So, yeah, I go from from that. You know cert, high speed, good mentalities. I know who's coming on there. They're easy to mold, they're just a good group of people. And then I go to night shift, to a shift that's known to be a little wilder and that was different. So you know they're thinking, oh, we got the circ commander coming now where he's gonna make us work and do like all this stuff. And yeah, I just laid low for a little bit. You know it's because I was the new guy to their shift. I couldn't just come in there like all hot and heavy. I'm the new guy, so it was very interesting.
Speaker 1:Big big culture shock there, uh you know that's something I don't think I've talked about on here, but it depends. The military has their own thoughts on this and I've heard different leaders talk about it, but it's something. When you become a leader, day one is not the time to come in there and just start changing stuff or just start, you know, throwing that rank around. Some places say, you know 60 days, some say 90. I've heard at least a couple of weeks, and your job during that time as a leader is to observe, not just observe what's going wrong, observe what's going right, because you want to keep that stuff, and I think that's something people forget a lot. They come in with this well, now I've got rank, I'm in charge, I'm going to fix this.
Speaker 1:Well, I guarantee you, not everything needs to be fixed. I mean, even at the worst, you can find things that are working or you wouldn't be there. So, yeah, that's my advice to new supervisors. I don't know what the timeline is, whether it's a week or two or three months, but walk in there and observe. That's your job. Your only job is to observe and find out what's going right and what's going wrong, and then you go in there and enhance what's going right the most you can help them get it, get it tied together, and then you can start working on how to correct or, uh, you know, fix the challenges of what's not working at the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a good point. It's you're the new guy. You're the new guy to them. Everyone knows who you are. Everyone knows you're a sergeant. Nobody cares. That's the thing. Like cool, right, awesome. Like because there's people like I could be sergeant, like it's not who cares, like let's see how are you going to take care there's a timeline to it, because your people will let you know, just like the brand new person that walks into the corrections. We all know nobody's talking to that person. You're brand new.
Speaker 2:You kind of got to earn your scars a little bit, earn your trust, because these are institutionalized people as well. They get sucked into it as well. So they have that mentality that you're new. This is how we're going to do things. So if you try to match that power trip to both ends, it's not going to work because they're testing you. You're going to test them. So if you're just like, hey, this is your shift, let me know what I can do, because there's still clerical stuff I had to learn.
Speaker 2:So I'm trying to learn how to be a sergeant. I got to do my job first before I can start telling people how to do theirs. You know, I think my first ever like thing I said on the radio was I need somebody to clean this mess up from the kitchen, like that was it. I wasn't telling people what to do. Like there's like a pizza mess or something. I said, ah, that's one of, I can't let that slide. But it kind of set this standard for me, like all right, he likes things, but he's going to leave us alone. As long as we do our job, we're good to go. That's how I treat it in me as well.
Speaker 1:So you don't have to what you're saying and tell me if I'm wrong. What you're saying is in order to lead people, I don't have to lead them step by step. I have to set the expectation, but I don't have to tell them. I need somebody to show up with a broom and a dustpan and a mop and a trash can Let them figure that out. They know how to do that and the only thing you're doing is just uh, you know, making them feel bad, um, making them feel like you don't value them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just about establishing a standard and you know, we know a lot of us commander's intent, like you know what expected out of me. Like, if I don't want to be told come clean the kitchen which is a lame reason to have your sergeant come talk to you then just have that cleaned up.
Speaker 2:But that also sets the state the tone for my view on cleanliness around the facility. Like I don't like messes, I don't want. I just at least have, like at any moment somebody could walk in. That's you know, being a cert commander. At any time the sheriff could be doing a tour with another very high-ranking political figure, and if my locker room is not put together, it's a direct reflection of me.
Speaker 2:So everything is going to be put away, everything's going to be clean, because you never know who's going to show up and what's going to happen is we had a jail commander that was like he would come in. He'd be like, hey, why is this a mess? Had a jail commander that was like he would come in. He'd be like, hey, this is, why is this a mess? Like it was, like I made the mess, but essentially what it showed him was are you even watching your people? He caught me right and there's no right answer. Like, obviously I am. Yes, I am. They're leaving messes, that's okay. Yeah, you're gonna lose. So, yeah, I think it's just establishing standards early, but carefully.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that ties over to inmates too. Now you may have the inmate who has a learning disability that you have to guide a little more, but inmates hate it when you come over there and go. I need you to do this, this, this and this. You know? No, I need you to do this and how you get there. As long as it's within our rules and policies, I'm okay with. Inmates can have good ideas on how to do stuff. Also, I've learned a lot from how to do things on inmates by listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I've learned most of my leadership through dealing with inmates. You know there's when I was kind of when a new sergeant would come to our shift. They're like all right, so how do I do this? I was like well, it's not much different than your housing Firm, fair and consistent. Don't nag all the time or else you're going to get pushback. Their pushback is a little different, but you still have to build rapport and human behavior is not much different. So when I tell people it's worded bad, but it's like, the way I treated inmates was the way I treated staff in a leadership sense of course, like firm, fair, consistent. It's setting standards.
Speaker 2:When Hyde is here, this is the expectation He'll stay out of our way. If we stay out of his way, cool, I know you're here, I'm here. We kind of both don't want to be here, but let's not make it bad. You know like, and it's like nitpicking. You can be the guy that goes around and writes everybody up for every little thing, but that is so exhausting, just like being a supervisor. I can go and nitpick everything an employee does and try to write them up and get the, but then you're just, I don't know, mean Like it's, it's like you're trying to prove something or you or you can grow that employee, and then you don't have to watch them as much.
Speaker 1:If you teach them how to do things theirself, what is it, you know? Teach a man to fish. It'll feed him forever. Give him a fish It'll last him a day. The same goes with training and instruction and knowledge. Don't don't go in there telling them all the time. Let them figure it out, let them decision make, and then they're going to be able to make decisions on their own, without you, and that's a great thing. That's what every leader wants.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't like when a supervisor or sergeant or lieutenant would come down and start telling me how to do things because I got a system going. It kind of interrupts my report because the way I deal with people is not the way you do, like you've got maybe a different report, you've been here a lot longer so you can do things differently, but it's kind of like that I've already told them. No, I need you to just let me do my thing, because you know we had a lot going on. I couldn't go around and just make every decision for everyone else like, well, well, hyde's not here, I can't make a decision. Well, you're not going to grow. You could be my boss one day, right like the way rank works. Like you could be my lieutenant. I need to, I need you. I'm training you to be that like I'm. I'm all for it. But if I can train my boss, I'll definitely try to do that the correct way, instead of trying to prove myself. I've already proved myself. I got a sword. Sure, cool, got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, let's. Let's switch gears just a little bit. So let me see here it's always hard for me to do this, but uh, there's your book, from rookie to rank, and uh, I'll have a link, of course, in the show notes to that for people to see where to buy that at. But so what started you down the path of wanting to write a book?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I really started studying leadership. It was like human behavior and human you know just how the brain works has always been really interesting to me and I the more I studied leadership, the more I would get kind of frustrated with Maybe people's view on it or everybody. Like if you're in a ranking position, you're now a leader. You're not. Leadership is an action. You know you may be in a leadership position, but it's how you treat that position.
Speaker 2:If you're going to be authoritarian, if you're just going to call yourself a leader and you know, then there's people that are like resume leaders. They go to all these different leadership academies, these little three-day courses like well, I passed this, so obviously I'm a leader now, but now go take care of why you're losing people. Your retention is horrible, your staff is not. There's maybe some things going on, so you're not actually leading people. So I think it was a good way for me to kind of get some emotions out as well, just my view of things and there's not a lot of corrections based there's that's out there. But you know, I kind of want to go against the mold, you know, not so much rah-rah leadership, just kind of you know of my view and my experiences and hopefully people can kind of translate that to theirs, because I truly care about correction staff everywhere and if I can maybe simplify some things, then that's what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:It worked for me really well and I wanted to kind of just put it on paper and kind of spread the word. So, yeah, it was a bucket list item for me, I had just gotten done with my MBA. Just put it on paper and kind of spread the word. So, yeah, it was a bucket list item for me, I'd just gotten done with my MBA. I was like, well, I can do a doctorate and do a dissertation, or I can be cool and write a book. It's like not a lot of people get to do that, so let's do it, it'll look cool.
Speaker 1:Okay, I will mention one way to find this. If you go to wwwtheprisonofficercom, when that page comes up, I have a list of correctional leadership books there. There's a button, click that. Matthew's book is on there along with several others. It's something I'm trying to collect into one place because, you're right, five, 10 years ago there were like maybe 10 books, maybe you know, and now corrections is getting a little bit more. We've got a few podcasts, We've got a few books. We're talking about corrections more and not about people keep trying to and I get, I get emails every week. Hey, I survived prison, I did 20 years. Now I want to be on your podcast. My podcast isn't for that. My podcast is for correctional officers and correctional officers, correctional staff, people who've walked in the gate and worked there, and we're starting to see more of that written by the people who walked in the gate, worked there, and I'm really glad to see those stories coming out and these books on leadership so I think corrections just painted differently like everything's tv, so it's.
Speaker 2:It's the 60 days in stuff that is. It's that does not reflect corrections, staff at all or any. Any sort of show kind of glorifies the inmate. You know, then you watch cops and it's glorifying the cop. Or you know, like there's, there's nothing. There might have been like a show, but even then I don't watch them. My kids love it.
Speaker 2:My wife's always like is that how it is like it's so different everywhere, like I have no idea, but a lot of times it doesn't paint the officer very well. So I think it's great and you know, in this community is growing, we, we all try to help each other out and, and you know, expand it. Uh. So it's, you know not, it's not a very high ego thing and we, we all want success for each other, because there's times where it's time to kind of move on. You get burnout and I don't want to be done with it, so I want to help. That's how I get through some of my, I guess, traumas or whatever that I've collected along the way. If I can help somebody else out through mine, then yeah, no. And I think that's kind of the mentality of all of us is we always want to help and it's a very tight knit group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I retired five years ago. I could have planted a garden and put a big hat on and, you know, raise peppers, but I wasn't done. You know, when you get to the end of your career, you get farther in your career and you get to make a difference with people and you get to help corrections as a whole. There's a lot to that and I think you're right, it is cathartic, it is. It has helped me putting this stuff down, putting it on the podcast. I'm being able to talk about it. It's helped my family. We've had an open conversation about, you know, what they put up with for years and I wasn't always the nice person when I came through the door after a shift. So we've had those.
Speaker 1:But let me get back to your book I'm going to. I've got a couple of things highlighted that I read in here and I thought they were interesting. I want to have you expand on these a little bit. One of the chapters you have in here is leading through change, and the little sentence that caught me was people don't resist change because they're lazy, and I think that's the thought that people have about why they resist change. It says people resist change because it challenges what they've already mastered, and I thought that was a pretty cool sentence. Expand that on me and talk about that.
Speaker 2:Through. You know. One thing I think every leader should try to learn is how to lead through different generations. You know you. You talk, the way you hear things from like a 25 year vet, and how they talk about oh, we've done it for years like this. We used to just do this, and I think it challenges their thought of being the new guy again.
Speaker 2:So they, they know everything that you're a brand new guy. They know everything, they've been through it. They know everything that you you're a brand new guy. They know everything, they've been through it. So now here comes this change that you know.
Speaker 2:They either quite don't understand or don't understand because they're going to have to learn something again and I think that challenges a lot of people and it hurts their, their ego, because they don't. They don't see the sense in it. But yeah, I just kind of watching the behaviors of people. They see like why. Yeah, just kind of watching the behaviors of people. They see like why I don't think it's laziness, because they've been dealing with change forever. Change happens, so change management, corrections is so fast. But yeah, I think it just makes them feel like the new guy again and that kind of hurts their ego. Instead of being open and knowing that's part of it. They're going to have to ask the new guy a question Like what does this mean? And a lot of times they don't want to do that because I don't go to that person. For that they come to me.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's just kind of been my thought of it.
Speaker 1:It's a good point. I did an article for American Jail Association called Reverse Mentorship and I think there is something to be said about letting you know the new generation teach the older generation, and this isn't the first time this has happened. When computers came in because you're talking to a guy here that started out with typewriters and carbon paper you know I've been around for a little bit so I saw many changes. I went from lever hauls to having a board with our own toggles to call and control, to open a door. So change has happened in my career. But to be able, we did that during the computer era, when those came into the system. The newer people and I was one of them that was all into computers and loving video games, even though it was like Pac-Man but we were the ones that went in and taught the older generation how to use the computer. And you build bonds there. It's reverse mentorship, but it's also training and you're also building bonds between those two generations. So I think that's something we can look at now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just kind of shows some humility on the older generations. You have to adapt. Anything tactical, you have to adapt. It is what it is. But there's some guys that are definitely stuck in their ways and things are going to go this way. We've always done it this way, but I think we should value those guys as well. They have seen a lot more. They've experienced with a lot less, so I always found value in having those guys come in during a policy change and letting them be part of it, at least voice to where the higher up people are answering the questions and they can maybe have a more of an understanding when it rolls out or feel like they had a say in it. That helps out a lot more rather than everybody learning at the exact same time and, you know, gaining frustrations. At least these the older. You show value in the people that have been there through all of it, the good and the horrible.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, and, as an administrator, if you're going to roll out a new program and you're going to have new instructors, get one of the instructors that's new, newer generation, get one of the instructors that's older generation and have them team instruct. That. That's some of the best instruction. Staff are going to accept that because you've got both generations up there talking about it. So if you can do that, if you can do that team instruction and mix the generations, you're going to get better reception on that. Yeah, yeah, definitely so. Another one was hard conversations and honest corrections. Disengaged staff don't improve, they disconnect and, more importantly, they may recruit others to join, to join them in disengagement. Isn't that the truth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, stuff spreads quick inside, especially emotions, and if newer staff or staff that are trying to fit in, they're going to have to follow the path of everyone else. And if it's disgruntled, then that's the culture. Unfortunately, it's hard for a lot of these guys to not wear their emotion all the time, but negativity spreads just like anything else inside of a facility. There's no secrets it spreads fast.
Speaker 1:And everybody knows the old guy sitting in the back corner that just he doesn't like anything. And that's what you have to protect those newer recruits from.
Speaker 2:Being an instructor. You deal with that all the time that I have to be here for training. I've already trained on this for 20 years. Why do I need to come back? Because it's legal liability. Because when the courts ask the last time you were trained in this and they say 15 years ago, that's not acceptable. We need to do it all the time. So you need to know that, know that. But that's the. That's the person that'll say you don't need this, we don't ever use any of this. Um. And then they start like now we're just kind of making stuff up and you know it spreads so quick and yeah, that's the negativity that's one thing I don't miss.
Speaker 1:Was you know, annual training or whatever you call it? Where you're at and you go in there as an instructor, in the back half of the room has newspapers and their arms crossed and this, this look like let's get this the hell over with. Well, now you know, I'm retired, so I go out and train at different agencies. Well, the people at those trainings they want to be there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's such a different world to go out and train a room full of people that are excited and they're engaged and they're wanting the stuff than it is to have to force through ethics training, yeah and you know I would you know, or whatever your annual training where you have to like some people need to sit up front, like not everybody can pack in the back, like we'd have people pull up chairs, not to a table, just to sit, like guys, it's okay, just scoot up, it's fine. Like I still see you, I see you back there, you're there. But that kind of showed people I don't know that, maybe they're special, maybe I just looked at it a little bit differently. Why do I have to sit up here? They get to sit back there. How do I earn my spot to sit wherever I want? So it's like regulating that classroom. But yeah, you could tell they didn't want to be there, which showed everyone else that that that's you know. But you have to be there Like I don't know, you're no, you you joined this job.
Speaker 2:Your training's a thing. You're going to train a lot, or you should. There's places that have none. We're doing double than what we need to.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, not everybody sees it like that, though I'll tell you, when I made my Lieutenant, this was one of the craziest things. So there were a couple of Lieutenants who weren't good Lieutenants and they decided to take me under their wing, and so all three of us it's a big enough agency that all three of us were going to annual training together that week and they both came up to me and said you know, you need to sit on the front row. And I was like so that you know we can show people it's okay to sit up in the front of the class. And they said no, because if you sit in the back you can see what people are doing wrong and you'll have to report it. It just blew me away.
Speaker 2:Avoid it, that was the way they looked at life. Yeah, if you don't see something bad, nothing, nothing's happening. But I think that's the. That's kind of a facilities mindset, Like, ah, don't look that way, it's, it's just. But that's the opposite of what I. I don't want to get anybody in trouble, but people need to not get themselves in trouble. Like that's what you've created, a culture that where if you just don't do it in front of them, it's you're good to go. But yeah, that's a lawsuit, man. Sound advice though, that's. That's hilarious.
Speaker 1:Here's one. Here's one you and I have in common and I don't really have anything highlighted, but I felt a lot of what you said and that is leading through a difficult administration, and I did that a couple of times. Yeah, difficult administration, and I did that a couple of times. Yeah, that was the most challenging part of my career, where a couple of administrations who they didn't like, the people who worked for them they didn't like themselves and they made the world miserable. But what was your experience with that and how did you get through it?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, in a county level it's politics, it's very political, so I mean it's, it's a different animal than maybe, you know, a prison, where that's a higher position. This is an elected position, so there's a lot more to it. There's, you know, people run against each other, you know there's I don't think many sheriffs quite know what they're taking on when it comes to jail. So a lot of egos, a lot of let me prove myself making decisions without necessarily speaking with the people that are inside the building, kind of what's best for them, or here's money cuts, or how can we get patrol this? We can we take this away from the jail? You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just all different types of stuff, um, you know, and then it's sometimes you just don't like the administration and they, they know that that their people are kind of turning on them. So instead of leading they, it's a show of force, like well, I'm here, um, and it's kind of universal. I thought that was like kind of turn it on them. So instead of leading they, it's a show of force like well, I'm here, um, and it's kind of universal. I thought that was like kind of a topic that a lot of people. Could you know that that might be dealing like? I don't want to just start talking about things that I I think it's something everybody faces or has the potential to face yeah, so I lost myself for a while.
Speaker 1:I fell into the the we're getting picked on, you know, and I was trying to avoid getting in trouble. But what I discovered and you talk about it in your chapter there what I discovered was that was when the people under me and around me needed me the most, and so I actually learned that I could not ignore what was going on above me, but I found out that that wasn't as important as what was going on around me and below me. Those people had a lack of leadership, and when I, when I checked out, they had an even more problem with lack of leadership.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, I think during that time I think what I came to the conclusion was I needed to be led. I was so busy leading others. I had nobody leading me On the people that I trusted. I'm trying to take care of my team. I'm trying to do our job to the best. I'm trying to not show so much frustration to them, because it spreads and I need them to know because if I freak out, they're going to freak out and I don't think people understand the amount of weight you take on when you take on a cert, commander role or stuff like that, where you are dealing with the top and it becomes budgets and numbers and not. So, yes, the mission's there, but there's a lot more to it. So, yeah, no it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I lost myself quick. I was so protective over my people and I got into this mindset of us versus them, patrol versus corrections I think that is a lot of places and I wanted to protect my guys and it got viewed a little differently from the above. It just had a negative outcome. And then in my head I was just thinking man, at that time I needed a leader and nobody was willing to do that for me and maybe a leader could have slowed me down or like, hey man, you need to check yourself here real quick. Like this is probably not a good idea, but people were fighting for positions and I kind of just, you know, I don't know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right. I, as I travel around the country teaching jails, I see such a discrepancy between one end and the other. You do have sheriffs who come in and they hire a jail administrator or an undersheriff and say, hey, jail's yours. I don't want to hear about it, because it is where their money's going, it's where their problems are, it's all of that and then I'll go other planet. I hope they don't mind me speaking about it, but I was teaching up in Ingham County, michigan, a couple of weeks ago and I was so excited the sheriff came in.
Speaker 1:I'm teaching the correctional CTO class and the sheriff came in two or three times and he wanted to know what they were learning. He was engaged and he knew everybody's name. You know it was. It was exciting to see that type of sheriff who really cared about his corrections. He'd spent the money, of course, to bring in you know, good training just for his officers, made schedule adjustments so that a bunch of them could be there, and so that was exciting to see also. So, yeah, there's both sides of it. You're right. I don't know what the difference is, where they came up, patrol corrections, I don't know, but there is both sides.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's. You know, a lot of times the sheriff will hire somebody that is from patrol to run the jail and they're trying to learn that. I've seen that too. I'm seeing a lot more places maybe hiring somebody like a lieutenant from a jail to start, because they already have an understanding of all of that. You know, it makes it easier on the staff as well, because we can continue to lead, and I think that was like the main focus of that chapter is you still got to lead, man, like. You still got to do it. So we lead.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's just a little different, a little bit more careful, think tactically, you know. So we still got to lead, we still got our people, your people depend on you. So I just kind of felt like I was taking bullets for him all the time. But I would, I would do it all the time. Like I said, I was there to be the whipping post, to protect them, to save them. I call it the shield. Yeah, no, literally. You literally feel that like, like I am getting rained on right now with all these problems, but I'm like, hey, we're good, I got this. You guys, I need you to go do your thing.
Speaker 1:But if you're not willing to shield and I said this the other day if you're not willing to shield the people above you and around you, you're probably in the wrong position. And corrections we learned that early, you know, because you're shielding the person next to you, yeah, people rely on you. So what's next for Matthew Hyde? What do you got going? What's coming up? Well, you know I'm, I know you're pushing the book?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think the idea was, you know I want to help, you know, kind of spread the simpleness of leadership and, you know, maybe bring a different mindset. You know I'd like to maybe. You know I opened up a correctional leadership solutions LLC. You know I got the mirrorcheckcom. It's got, you know, my podcast, my book, all my social medias and you know I'd like to maybe turn it into maybe some speaking engagements or, you know, like maybe a couple of day training or you know, or just some sort of consulting something. I've consulted a couple of jails in the past while I was working as cert commander. So the need's there I think people are more with corrections isn't the same as 10 years ago. So it's very heavy in the news. There's a lot of liability, so I think people are becoming more aware of right. We need as much training as possible. You know some trainings are better than others, but if you know if I can spread, you know, the leadership word, then you know that would be a passion of mine. I love talking leadership.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I did listen to the first episode there on mirrorcheckcom. Tell me about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that was just kind of like you know my buddy's like all right, so you're going to, you know, do a podcast thing. I was like, well, I think it'd be good. You know, I'm still learning the ropes of it, like it's still kind of you know, I'm learning how to do things. But, you know, just trying to again spread the message I got it's gone worldwide so I've got downloads all over the place. People are listening. So I've got repeat listeners so a few people are liking it at least. But yeah, I'm trying. Any way I can again help anybody anywhere. That's what I want to do. What's the web address on that? So TheMirrCheckcom will have a link to the podcast, which it is on Spotify. You can find it on Spotify. It's on Buzzsprout, I think, apple podcast. I kind of tried to spread it around. Um. So yeah, mainly the mirror checkcom will get you right where you all the other places.
Speaker 1:Does that have your contact information too, if somebody wanted to get ahold of it?
Speaker 2:It does. It's got an email in there. If you'd like to send an email, even if it's just a question, we'll answer questions. We'll come stop by, come hang out and kind of talk about it. I like leadership strategy. I don't want to bring one lesson plan. Let's hear about what's going on here, what is the issue, and then what can we do to work through it. But what is the issue? Sure, and then what can we do to work through it? But then you also have to be open, understand that this might be your doing. So how are we going to unravel this? We got to take a step back, but it's just like anything else. It's a good first step to reach out and you don't want to silo yourself. I'm seeing that with a lot of places they silo themselves. We know everything, no-transcript. I never really thought about that. Let's break it down, let's figure this out. So, yeah, it's just us helping each other out and you, it's just us helping each other out.
Speaker 1:If I can talk leadership with anybody anywhere I'm in Sounds good. I'll put all that in the show notes so that people can find the link to that and get to your website and find your book and ask you questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I sure appreciate you being on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me Again. It's really cool. It's a really cool community. I'm still new to it, but everybody's been so nice and very helpful and I'm doing what I can to help everyone else. So it's a very cool community to be a part of and I'm excited to watch it grow.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Hey, you have a great day and we'll see you soon. Thank you, hey. Before we go, I'd like to take a minute to thank one of our sponsors.
Speaker 1:Omni Real-Time Locating System is a company I've been working closely with for years. I'm proud to be a part of this innovative team that's developed the best real-time locating system on the market today for your jail or prison. Omni's PREA-compliant real-time monitoring technology is the very best way to track and record your inmates' locations, their movements, their interactions, throughout every square inch of your correctional facility. Imagine getting an alarm the second an escape happens, or an alert that lets you know when an inmate's heart rate drops below a set level. To learn more about Omni, go to wwwomnirtlscom. That's omnirtlscom. That's OmniRTLScom. Or you can click on today's show notes to get in the information guide. Omni Real-Time Locating System is a powerful tool specifically designed for the modern correctional professional. If you haven't done so, please take a moment to like my podcast or, better yet, hit the subscribe button so that you'll be notified when the next episode comes out. Thanks for listening and let's be safe out there.
