87: Debunking Myths and Unveiling Lies of Prison Life

Ever wondered how much of what you've heard about prison life is actually true? Mike Cantrell pulls back the curtain on the misconceptions that society holds about prisons and their inmates. Through a personal recount of a misguided community meeting, he reveals how families are often manipulated by prisoners who exaggerate their hardships. From tales of inadequate food and clothing to the emotional tug-of-war for financial support, Mike sets the record straight on the stark differences between low-security camps and higher-security prisons.

The darker side of prison life is fraught with manipulation and deceit, and Mike doesn't shy away from these harsh realities. He dives into the sophisticated tactics inmates use to smuggle contraband and manipulate multiple women for financial gain.

Finding Your Purpose: Crafting a Personal Vision Statement to Guide Your Life and Career! by Michael Cantrell

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Chapters

• 0:00 Misconceptions About Prison Life
• 10:20 The Reality of Prison Life
• 20:29 Manipulation Within the Prison System
• 34:02 Manipulation and Education in Prison

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:35

In more than 28 years of corrections, I have used or supervised Pepperball hundreds of times. Now, as a master instructor for Pepperball, I teach others about the versatility and effectiveness of the Pepperball system. From cell extractions to disturbances on the rec yard, pepperball is the first option in my correctional toolbox. With the ability to transition quickly from area saturation to direct impact with the non-lethal PAVA projectiles. Pepperball provides me with a range of non-lethal options for cell extractions involving non-compliant inmates and when the use of force is over, decontamination is easy with no oily residue on the walls or floors. To learn more about Pepperball, go to wwwpepperballcom or click the show notes below. Pepperball is the safer option first. Well, hello and welcome back to the Prison Officer Podcast. My name is Mike Cantrell and I'll be your host.

Speaker 1: 1:32

I'm going to tell a little bit of a story today. I guess you know it's a story that's been repeated throughout my life and throughout my career, and so and I'm going to be really I'm not going to be specific, okay, I'm going to be very vague about where this occurred, who was there, but I will. I will be honest about what people said and my thoughts that go along with that. So I belong to a community group, and I'm just going to leave it at that and they had a speaker come in and that speaker, she was there to speak about her knowledge of prison, prison lingo, what she knew about prison, and I'll let you know how she kind of learned some of this. But that's what she was there for was to educate the group on what goes on in prison, and it wasn't something I was expecting, or I probably wouldn't have went, but I was there and she began her talk and, like many people, like many, so many people, she is completely off on what happens in prison. But that's not her fault and I don't blame her really. But that's not her fault and I don't blame her really.

Speaker 1: 2:59

She has a brother who was convicted of a white-collar crime and he was sent to federal prison and so he is in a camp somewhere and this is where she's gotten her information. They have reconnected. Of course, you know the moment he uh, uh, he went to prison, he called her, I'm going to prison, I need help. He probably called 12 other people, but uh, that's the part that she knows is that he called, uh, he needed help, and so she was there and she feels good about that and that's fine. I understand family, um, but there's a lot of stuff I don't understand.

Speaker 1: 3:40

You know, one of the things that she talked about, um, was what he says he saw in prison and first off, he's at a camp. So his, his knowledge of prison is based at this low-level camp where violence is not gone, but it doesn't happen too often. Maybe there's a little bit of the threat of violence, but how many people are going to carry that out when they're 18 months to the door? Are they going to pick up 6, 8, 10 years because they get in a fight? Most of them aren't in a fight. Most of them aren't, um, so for the most part, prison camps, especially in the feds, are more about inmates getting away with stuff than they are violence or rape or all that stuff that the media you know portrays that our prisons are about. So I know his knowledge is is minimal and he's tried to convince her that all these you know big badasses are there and uh that he's uh under threat. You know if he does the wrong thing.

Speaker 1: 4:48

But there were a few of the and I'm just gonna call them for what they are their lies. You know the lies that he told her and you can't blame them totally. I do do blame them some. You know, I worked in investigations for a while, so I monitored phone calls. I heard these conversations. I saw the way these families protected these inmates and how they listened to their lies and how they helped them continue their criminality while they were inside, which I don't know if that's the way they look at it. But when they're lying to you, trying to get you to send them money so that they can buy drugs or hooch or whatever, on the inside, of course they've convinced that family member that they need it to buy tennis shoes, food because they're not fed, which are both lies. You have this family member who doesn't really understand, and this is what they've heard, and these guys are good at it they're manipulators.

Speaker 1: 5:53

The interesting thing I took from her talk is that I don't think she believes she's being manipulated. I don't think she believes that she's being lied to by a person who committed fraud against a bunch of other people. What is fraud? Well, fraud is lying, and lying at that level. However many millions of dollars it was I forget what she said there was millions of dollars involved in the fraud. In order to fraud at that level, you have to be a master manipulator, you have to be an amazing liar to do that right. But yet when he tells her something on the phone, she believes it, and she believes it wholeheartedly, because this is her brother, right? So, and she's not the only person.

Speaker 1: 6:50

I've seen this in lots of places. I have a friend who I know had a son go to prison, and this son would call her up and tell her lies. He would tell her you know, mom, they won't give us coats in here and it's cold. So she put money on his books so he could buy a coat. Well, if you're one of those people out there, every inmate gets a coat, usually around October 1st, and then they turn it back in somewhere around the 1st of May. This happens every year at every prison I've ever seen or been to, which is a lot. They get coats, they get multiple pairs of socks, multiple pairs of underwear, a few pairs of pants, a few shirts. This is all provided for them. He would call them up and he would tell his mom that he's not getting fed. Oh, they don't feed me here.

Speaker 1: 7:50

Our dietary guidelines for prison are set down in stone and they're looked over by the Department of Health and everybody else. Now you may not get three hamburgers like you want, uh, but you're going to get a full meal three times a day. Um, now jails, it's a little different, a little more lead way there. I'll give you that on some of those I saw a jail probably been 20, 30 years ago it's been 30 years ago that gave out Swanson TV dinners, heated up in a microwave, three meals a day. Now I agree that's not good, nutritious food, but it's not starving someone either.

Speaker 1: 8:36

So you know these stories, these lies. These inmates get on the phone and they're they're eating. You'll see them. You know they're eating wham, whams and zoos out of the commissary already, while they're on the phone with this girlfriend or this mother or this sister or whoever it is in their family that they've convinced, uh, that they're being mistreated, and convince them to put money on the books. And as an officer it was always tough because you can't do it, we're not even allowed to or have the ability to. But so many times I just wanted to cut in on the phone call and say hold on a second. Let me send you a picture of his locker, right, this locker that is full of food. It's stacked to the top with Zuzu's and wham whams and ramen noodles and cookies and cakes and stolen food from the, from the food service Lockers full of food right, service Lockers full of food right. And they're on the phone lying to their family telling them that they don't have nothing, telling them that they're not getting medical care. The guy's never went to the dentist in his life and he's not getting medical. He's not getting into the dentist quick enough once he goes to prison. That's not my fault. You rotted your teeth out with meth. Get in line, we'll take care of it. Dental is part of health. I agree with that. But the lies that they tell to their families and the public amaze me. They amaze me greatly.

Speaker 1: 10:21

Another one of the things that she was. This lady was given away little prizes, you know candy if they answered the question right, if the group did, and one of them was what is one thing an inmate can never do? And nobody guessed it, you know, and they were all kind of looking around and steal from each other. I think was one of the answers, and she said that the answer to that was they could never look a correctional officer in the eye. If they did that without permission, they would get thrown in the hole. I don't even know where this level of guys and gals if you've got kids sitting around, this is probably not the episode but I don't know where this level of bullshit even comes from. Who believes that stuff Now? Did that happen 150 years ago? I don't know. I wasn't there, know, I wasn't there. But you know, when they had chain gangs, I'm I'm sure I saw pictures where inmates walk to the chow hall, you know, carrying their uh in line, carrying their trays, sitting down at the same time.

Speaker 1: 11:28

There was a different level of control in the 1800s. And prisons, penitentiaries, I'll agree with that. But if you think an inmate these days is getting beat for looking an officer in the eye, you're just, I don't know, you're crazy. That's what it is. You've watched too much TV and TV and, oh my God, I don't even know how to go off into this subject, which is the way we're portrayed, you know, uh, in television, movies it's never good. You know. They portray us as these thugs that come in there. We're, we're evil, you know, we're criminal ourselves.

Speaker 1: 12:13

And the truth of the matter against all those lies is I did this job, for I'm still working in corrections and law enforcement, instructing. I've done this job for more than 30 years. I've met thousands and thousands of correctional officers and the truth is, most of them I'm not saying there's not 1%, but most of them are coming to work to have a job, to take care of a family, to buy what they want, to do something on the weekends. You know? Uh, look at myself. Here I am, you know this this criminal, evil person who beats inmates and doesn't feed them and and doesn't allow him to have a coat in the winter. I've been married 30 plus years. I've got a daughter that's a professor, a son that's a CPA. We worked hard to, you know, pay off our house, have a little retirement, which I'm not doing a real great job at retirement. I'm still working quite a bit, but I don't have a criminal record. I'm not an alcoholic, I'm not taking drugs. Am I the only one? No, I'm not. Thousands upon thousands, upon thousands of correctional officers across this country are living the same life I am. They're going to work, they're doing a job. It's not the greatest job in the world.

Speaker 1: 13:42

Some days it's nasty. Some days we get to see the worst of humanity. People lie about us constantly. Even when I'm at a community group and I think you know I've kind of walked away from it a little bit. And here this lady shows up and she pretends to know who I am and pretends to know where I worked for 30 years because some camp inmates been full in her, full of lies. I can't been made. That's a master manipulator. That's a great liar. To start with, that's how he got in prison. So it riles me up, it makes me mad and I don't know how to fix it. I mean, that's part of the reason I started this podcast was to come up with some sort of way to talk about this and to give people some insight, some insight into the truth of what prison is, not what they see on TV, not what is it? Orange is the new black. I watched the first episode of that. It's one of the most nasty shows I've ever seen. Right, that doesn't go on in prison and women showers all the time. It's crazy, right.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Shawshank Redemption. You know there's a little bit about that movie I like and I think the interaction between the inmates is fairly realistic in that movie. I think most of the officers that they show in the background were fairly realistic in that movie, but the captain and his thugs that were coming in and whooping people in their cell and that kind of stuff fairly realistic in that movie. But the captain and his thugs that were coming in and, uh, you know, whooping people in their cell and and that kind of stuff, where do they get this from? I'll tell you the most realistic movie that, if you want to talk about realistic prison movies and when I first say this it's probably going to surprise you but if we're going to talk about realistic prison movies, I'm going to mention the Green Mile and you're going to say that's a fantasy movie.

Speaker 1: 15:50

This guy thinks, you know, that he can heal people and stuff. It's not so much the story that is realistic, but to me it's the four main officers there. And if you take a look at the four main officers, you see most of the officers I've worked with over the years. You know Tom Hanks character is that solid guy who's looking to do the right thing, giving people, you know what they got coming, uh, not treating them bad. Uh, trying to do the best he can despite everything that's going on in his life at the moment best he can despite everything that's going on in his life at the moment. Behind him you've got Brutus. You know the the. He was the quiet guy, large guy, and he was that guy you want in a fight, without a doubt. But Brutus didn't say anything and he spent most of his time trying to give the inmates what they had coming, nothing more. He's not going to give them extra, but he's not going to give them less. He's going to give them what they got coming.

Speaker 1: 16:52

There was the older guy there and I don't remember his character's name, but you know he was getting closer to retirement. He was very policy oriented you know, we can't do this because policy says so, uh and was very worried about losing his retirement, Uh, but still, he wasn't trying to do the wrong thing at all. And then you had the rookie and if you watch that movie closely you'll see that rookie and whoever directed it I don't remember who, but whoever directed it did a good job, because that rookie is constantly, if you'll watch him, he's standing behind them watching. He's trying to learn where his place is, you know, and he's looking towards Tom Hanks' character and Brutus and the older guy. He's looking to those guys to see what a good correctional officer does, right, and then and we all know it off to the side there. Who do you have? You've got Percy.

Speaker 1: 17:50

And are there Percys that work in corrections? Yes, I've ran into them. There's lots of Percys, but they make up such a small percentage of the good, hard-working correctional officers that are there to do a job for the public. They're there to keep Joe Blow safe in his bed and his family every night, and we don't like Percy. We don't tolerate Percy.

Speaker 1: 18:20

I have been more than once into the captain's office. I've been more than once into the warden's office and said you need to take a look at this officer. This officer's here with a punishment mentality and that's not what we need. I don't want to work beside them, I don't want to work with them. This isn't who I need working, because those people they don't just cause trouble for inmates, they cause trouble for me. Most of the problems I've ever had on a shift started the shift before mine because there was somebody, you know, stirring something up and then I walk in and Percy's been making this inmate mad and that inmate can't get to Percy. So I walk in the door and I'm feeding trays and guess what? Now I'm getting something thrown at me. I didn't do anything, percy did, and I understand that, and the officers understand that, and we don't want him working with us. We weed them out as quick as we can.

Speaker 1: 19:21

I wonder these days, though, I will say this I wonder are the Percys getting weeded out as much Because Corrections is in such a tight scrunch? Are we hiring people that we wouldn't before? You know, we talked to a police officer Grayson, I can't remember his name, but he had been through six police departments and shot that girl. She was carrying a pot of boiling water, I believe, and he shot her, and people were, like you know, looking at all this stuff. Well, the thing to look at is this guy had two DUIs. He's been with five other departments who've had problems with him and somebody else hired him. That didn't happen when we were lined up a hundred deep trying to get in the door to get a good job at corrections. I don't know if that's happening now. I hope not. I hope we keep our standards. I know we need the help, I know we need people in this career, but I hope we keep the standards.

Speaker 1: 20:30

But back to what I was originally talking about. I kind of veered off there a little bit. I see the lies, I heard the lies. I used to sit in the tower and monitor phone calls. I remember when Clinton was in office, leonard Peltier, who is a fairly famous uh criminal inmate, uh shot two FBI agents back in the uh, I believe 1970s and uh, he's been in jail ever since and they've been trying to get him out because he's Native American and was part of this group. So he was looking at getting clemency from the president or getting pardoned. And I was listening on the phone call and I listened to a couple of Hollywood actors who were telling him when he didn't get it, I'm so sorry you didn't get it. That was horrible. I can't believe they're doing this to you and it just blows my mind that people listen. That guy walked up and shot two FBI agents in the head. Yeah, I'm sorry you didn't get out. I'm sorry you're going to have to do most of your life in prison after you took somebody else's life. Do they care one little iota about the kids or the spouses of those FBI agents? Their lives were changed forever. But we're worried about whether or not this guy uh gets out of prison.

Speaker 1: 22:18

I don't even know how to respond to some of that. Why are people willing to latch on to these manipulators what causes that? And I understand. With this lady I listened to today. You know that's a family member, so you know it's a little closer.

Speaker 1: 22:36

But I watch inmates call. They'll get on the phone at night and call woman after woman after woman after woman. Tell them that they're you know you're my one and only. I love you. I'm going to marry you. When we get out I can't, you know. Talk dirty, talk dirty, all that stuff. Put some money on my books, hang up, call the next, say the same stuff You're my, only, you're my. Everything I'm going to, I'm going to take care of you when I get out. Put some money on my books. There's guys that have a ton of women who are sending them money like that. They cannot believe I just have a hard time. They cannot believe that this criminal, this manipulator, is going to come out of prison and change their life. She cannot believe that a man who's frauded people out of $10 million is truthful.

Speaker 1: 23:44

My wife once worked with a guy and it reminded me of it today because she told me several stories. She told us I'm sorry. She told us several stories about how inmates get around the rules. She told me several stories about how she broke policy. You know she started off by complaining about the way she was treated. Well, when we go there, they treat us. You know they make us get searched. They have to go through everything. We can't even wear underwire bras, was what she said. You know why you can't wear underwire bras? Because women will take drugs and they'll hide them on those wires and that way, when it goes off, we can't search it right. It's a way for them to hide drugs Visiting rooms every day.

Speaker 1: 24:42

The reason we have rules, the reason we do the things the way we do, is because we are at battle with these visitors that come in. I have caught a religious volunteer with a space cut in a Bible that they were bringing marijuana into the prison with. I can't tell you the number of visitors I've caught who either put drugs in their private areas and carried them in, carried them in in their mouth. You know they'll bring them in. This is the part that nobody talks about to the public. These visitors will bring them in. You know they'll have them put up inside them. Excuse me, I got to go to the restroom.

Speaker 1: 25:35

There's a reason we have two different restrooms, one for visitors, one for inmates. So they can't leave stuff in the restroom for the inmates. But the visitor will get up, go to the restroom. They'll pull the drugs out of themselves, unwrap them, walk back out in the visiting room, sit down, reach into a potato chip bag like they're going to get a chip. Or they do get a chip, but while they're doing that they're dropping drugs in the potato chip bag. So as soon as they do that, the inmate reaches in the potato chip bag and he'll grab the drugs and a potato chip, put it in his mouth and now he'll swallow it. So I'm supposed to let them do that all the time while they bring drugs in. That's why we have to check you, that's why we have to go through your purse, that's why we can't wear underwire bras, because they're constantly trying to bring stuff into the prison, people who know better, people who don't have criminal records.

Speaker 1: 26:39

My wife's friend told her that he wore brand new tennis shoes to visiting so that him and his son could switch shoes while he was in there, so that his son would have a good pair of shoes. This wasn't a criminal. This was a good guy that worked hard every day, but he thinks it's okay to go in and break the rules because he thinks I don't know what he thinks. I think he thinks he's helping his son, but what he doesn't know is the reason his son's talked him into doing this is because he's got a gambling debt and that $70 pair of tennis shoes that he just walked in the door with is going to pay off his son's gambling debt or his drug debt or whatever debt. Pay off his son's gambling debt or his drug debt or whatever debt.

Speaker 1: 27:30

She told us that she has put in our money on other inmates, commissary accounts, poor inmates who don't have anything. There's a reason I don't, we don't. There's a reason I don't, we don't. There's a reason we don't let you put money on other inmates accounts, and that's because that's how these inmates pay off their debt. Most inmates in prison are in some sort of debt. Any inmate that's still doing drugs, that's still doing alcohol, that's still, and some of it's for, uh, you know stuff that they uh might want.

Speaker 1: 28:09

Shawshank redemption he wanted art supplies and a rock hammer, right. So that's why he's trying to get trade around and get money. That's all contraband Gambling gambling goes in all the time, goes on all the time in prison. So she skirted the rules by putting money on these other guys accounts, which is paying off the debt of her brother. But she looks at me like I'm the problem here. She comes in there and talks about prison. But she looks at me like I'm the problem here. She comes in there and talks about prison like I'm the problem. I'm, excuse me. I'm the one who won't let her brother do illegal stuff inside. I'm the one who won't let her go through the metal detector without being searched. I'm the one that put up all these rules. Every rule that we have in prison is because inmates have tried to get around them. They've tried to manipulate the system and we had to put rules in place. So if you don't like the rules that we have in the visiting room, tell your inmate to quit breaking the rules. Quit bringing your inmates drugs. Quit bringing them tennis shoes. We're not the bad guy here, but that's what I got to listen to today.

Speaker 1: 30:04

I feel sorry in some ways. I try to. I try to have compassion for her, because she's being manipulated. She's being manipulated just like all the other people, and she admitted it. Um, he actually lost some of her money, uh, doing his fraudulent schemes. But she's the one being manipulated by a guy who is a master doing his fraudulent schemes. But she's the one being manipulated by a guy who is a master manipulator, who has told her stories that don't exist, who has made up things to make himself look good, make everybody else look bad. He's doing the same stuff he's done forever. That's what got him in trouble.

Speaker 1: 30:49

Now I know there's going to be some people here who say, well, mine's not like that. I hope so. I hope you have a person who made a mistake is going to go pay for their mistake and come back out and be a good part of society. I hope they're going to go get a job. I hope they're going to pay their taxes. I hope they're going to do some brilliant art right. I hope they affect somebody's life positively. I truly hope that that happens for your relative or whoever it is that you've got in prison.

Speaker 1: 31:32

But what got them in prison has got to raise something in your head that says I wonder if I ought to fact check them just a little bit. Would they lie to me? Yes, they would lie to you. When they were on drugs, they were lying to you that they weren't stealing money out of your purse, weren't they? They were lying to you when they told you they were going to go to rehab and this was the last time. Yet when they go inside and they tell you that the officer won't let them look you in the let them look them in the eye.

Speaker 1: 32:13

All of a sudden, you know a lot about prison. All of a sudden, you know a lot about correctional officers. Well, here's what I'm going to tell you about correctional officers. I visit with them almost every week, I train them, I see them, I see what they put up with and I love them. My best friends are correctional officers. They go do a job for their community, a community that largely forgets about the job they do. Yet they still go do it. What kind of noble profession is that? So don't tell me that all the correctional officers are bad, that they're treating all the inmates bad.

Speaker 1: 33:04

I've been there and I didn't work at a camp. Okay, mr camp inmate, I didn't work at a camp where he gets to play nintendo in the off hours, where he probably has a tablet. His hardest job is, uh, m, three, four hours a day. Oh yeah, that's all he's doing, even if he's got a job. I wasn't at a camp, I was at penitentiaries.

Speaker 1: 33:37

I saw the violence in prison. I saw what people are capable of. I saw the manipulation at a level that most people can't imagine, because these guys are masters. That's how they got where they're at. And then they go to prison and they get better. They learn from each other. They become criminally educated in how to do it better.

Speaker 1: 34:03

Oh yeah, the guy didn't come up with the idea to call three girls and convince them that he they love. He loved them. He didn't come up with that idea. When he comes in prison, they start educating him. Hey, dude, if you want extra stuff on your commissary, here's what you got to do. You got to call your grandma. You got to get a hold of you know three names. Call your, call your old high school people, have them, give you some names of some girls and they start working on them and manipulating them.

Speaker 1: 34:33

I've listened to hours of it. It's sickening. Okay, well, I just had to stop and share that today. It's something we all run into and I wish the world was different. I do, and I'm going to keep doing this podcast to try to make it a little different, to try to put some of the truth out there, to talk about what does go on in prison not what the movies say, not what the TV says and certainly not what the sister of a guy who committed fraud convinced her of. So be safe out there, take care of each other. Walk by somebody tomorrow when you get on shift and ask them how are you doing, and then stop and take a minute to listen. That's the most important thing you can do for each other inside Until next time. This is Mike Cantrell.

Speaker 1: 35:38

I would like to take a minute to thank one of our sponsors that make the Prison Officer Podcast possible. Omni RTLS is a company that I've been working with for the last year. I am proud to be part of this team of correctional professionals who have developed the best real-time locating system on the market today. With Omni's real-time location technology, you automatically know the accurate locations and interactions of all inmates, staff and assets anywhere in your correctional facility, and you have this information in real time. Omni is cutting-edge software for today's jails and prisons. It is the only way to monitor every square inch of your facility while still being PREA compliant. Go to wwwomnirtlscom for more information and to make your facility safer today. That's wwwomnirtlscom for more information and to make your facility safer today.